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blunt laser  
#51 Posted : 19 December 2018 07:42:26(UTC)
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Apologies if this has been posted but track list on Amazon here: Movement (Definitive Edition) [VINYL] https://www.amazon.co.uk...r_cp_api_i_nyMgCb7HJ7R2F
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Debaser  
#52 Posted : 19 December 2018 07:42:46(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post

Nice to see no tracks repeated from the 'Collectors Edition' bonus discs (although an annoyance for those that don't have them or didn't get their faulty versions replaced with the corrected ones). Would have been ludicrous to sell them to us die hard fans once again, and the two bonus discs from both releases will combine to make a nice three disc set of all related tracks from that period.

Oh yeah so we don't get the 12" single versions of EGG and Temptation etc. I'm surprised actually.


Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post

- Ridiculous price (£120).

Yep.

Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post

I'm hoping there will be some form of cheaper way to get hold of the new content

Bet there isn't, until it ends up online not-quite-legally.

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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Jcp7  
#53 Posted : 19 December 2018 07:42:56(UTC)
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£120, it must be à missprint. If not, fuck off!
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blunt laser  
#54 Posted : 19 December 2018 08:07:25(UTC)
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I’m wondering now how many fuck ups will occur during this campaign? Imagine if they managed it flawlessly?!
I can’t see myself buying all the 12”s again, be interesting to see how they compare though and how far up to?
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Wax  
#55 Posted : 19 December 2018 08:22:55(UTC)
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It would be nice if they could fit a track or 2 from Movement at their upcoming shows to promote it but everyone knows how Bernard feels about singing on Movement.

Definitely think "In a Lonely Place" could replace "Decades" since they have already 3 JD songs in the mix. I think "Everything's Gone Green" or "The Him" would fit well too.
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
50poundnote  
#56 Posted : 19 December 2018 08:28:59(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
Initial comments/observations:

- Tracklist for Ceremony 12"s make reference to "Version 1" and "Version 2" of 'Ceremony' but not for 'In A Lonely Place'. There are two, subtly different versions of this B-side on both releases (more synthesised thunder clap effects on the second version). Wonder if this is an oversight, or will one version erroneously appear on both twelve inches?


When we were putting Recycle together we did a lot of A/B comparison, and discovered that the alternate version didn't actually surface until CD2 of Substance in 1987. Hopefully, if they continue with these sets, Substance will get a box.
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50poundnote  
#57 Posted : 19 December 2018 09:02:54(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Very minimal cover for the box.Not a font i don't think i've seen New Order use before.


UserPostedImage


Reminds me of the special boxed cassette editions released through Woolworths in 1986.
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#58 Posted : 19 December 2018 09:30:09(UTC)
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Hmm... where to start? Well to start i won't be putting an order in this side of christmas.

Amazon appear to be advertising the non bundle edition at a little cheaper than the New Order store.They have it at £109. .Though i'm starting to dislike Amazon when i read about their treatment of workers.


Some interesting stuff on the DVD- Amongst others all the songs from BBC Riverside 1982 ,NY Peppermint Lounge 1981 and footage from various gigs in 1981-1982 including Newcastle, Paris, Manchester, Minneapolis, Toronto and Norwich.Think the DVD disc will be of most interest to me.There's a fair bit there i've never seen.
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#59 Posted : 19 December 2018 09:35:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Very minimal cover for the box.Not a font i don't think i've seen New Order use before.


UserPostedImage


Reminds me of the special boxed cassette editions released through Woolworths in 1986.



In NewOrder store, the photo of the box appears to show the print is quite nicely embossed (if you click the enlarge photo option on the page at NewOrder store)


UserPostedImage

Edited by user 19 December 2018 09:36:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
The Shadow  
#60 Posted : 19 December 2018 09:42:56(UTC)
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I’ve justified it by the good wife buying it for my birthday, and then they go and charge you £11 postage!!!.. The amount I’ve spent on new order these last 30 years does not bear thinking about.....but the pleasure though, the pleasure they bringSmile
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
perspexorange  
#61 Posted : 19 December 2018 10:06:09(UTC)
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£120 is ridiculous and seems very steep for 4 discs (1 vinyl, 2 CD, 1 DVD), a book and a box. I will still get one though, obviously.

As someone else pointed out, it's currently £109 at Amazon for the LP box set (I imagine the prize will drop to just under £100 nearer to the time). There are advantages to ordering through Amazon. Firstly, they have their price promise (you pay the cheapest price that the product is advertised for on their site; so if the price increases, you still pay the lower price). Secondly, is the free shipping, which I think they still do (don't they?). I know you have to wait a little longer but it's better than paying £11 postage (was that for the LP & the 12"s, or just the LP?).
I have Prime, so ordering through Amazon is no-brainer for me.

That being said, I'm almost tempted to buy the bundle from the website, as £130 seems a better deal (relatively, of course). You get 4 x 12"s for an extra £10. Buying the box from Amazon and the individual 12"s from NewOrder.com would set you back £150.

But, as I've said before, I don't have a turntable, so I'd just be buying them to look at. Which seems a bit pointless.
I wish they'd've released more info / pics, i.e. do the 12"s come with download codes? How about original artwork on the labels? Wasn't Temptation embossed on the back? If so, has this been replicated?

Also, it's a trifle annoying that the 7" versions aren't included somewhere on the 12"s. Maybe as downloads only.

However, the DVD material looks absolutely fantastic. I'm going to study the track listings a little more closely and post more here after.
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perspexorange  
#62 Posted : 19 December 2018 10:11:36(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
Wonder if 'Temptation (Alternate 7") is the edited 7 inch version from the 'Something Wild' soundtrack or another take?


That was my thinking too.

Wonder if the Procession rehearsal is the same one from bootlegs that have been circulating for a number of years.

Looking forward to hearing the Cargo demos and the 1st mix of Ceremony.
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
tapebias  
#63 Posted : 19 December 2018 10:15:20(UTC)
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They've got the date wrong, should be 1st April. £120 for that is shocking. Ouch! Disc 4 looks interesting but Steve has already said the demos are not that different to the released versions - listened to once and never again in my experience. Hopefully also comes with a nice book of pics of Cargo Studios and Ian's melodica.
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
perspexorange  
#64 Posted : 19 December 2018 11:23:31(UTC)
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OK - so let's break the DVD down, as this is where the real goodness is:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
New Order – Movement DVD

Live Shows

Hurrah’s, NY 1980

In A Lonely Place
Procession
Dreams Never End
Mesh
Truth
Cries & Whispers
Denial
Ceremony

Recorded on 27th September, 1980.
Produced, directed and filmed by Merrill Aldighieri

What can I say about this? This is magnificent stuff. Only their fifth NO gig and the band is sans Gillian. Steve singing Procession, Ceremony (verses only, probably, with Hooky doing chorus) & possibly also Cries & Whispers (verses only, with Hooky definitely doing the chorus). That Cries & Whispers chorus only appears on these early live performances. They dropped it for the 12" release.

The clips I've seen of this performance are stunning. Great quality footage of the band in pretty raw form.

The only puzzling thing is 'Denial' being listed. As far as I'm aware, it wasn't played at this gig (I don't think it had been written at this point). Strangely, slicingupeyeballs.com have possibly noticed this and removed it from their report of the track listing.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Peppermint Lounge, NY 1981

In A Lonely Place
Dreams Never End
Chosen Time
ICB
Senses
Denial
Everything’s Gone Green
Hurt – instrumental
Temptation

This gig appears to be complete. No idea what the quality is going to be like, but I'm looking forward to seeing it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

TV Sessions
Granada Studios 1981

Doubts Even Here
The Him
Procession
Senses
Denial

This is very odd. As stated earlier in the thread, the band performed two sessions for the 'Celebration' show (10 & 8 songs / takes respectively).
The programme only broadcast 6 songs; Dreams Never End (2nd session, 3rd attempt after two aborted ones), ICB (1st session), Chosen Time (1st session, Take 2), Denial (1st session, Take 1), Ceremony (1st session, Take 1) & Truth (1st session, Take 2). Two of the broadcast songs made it the Glasgow DVD (Ceremony & ICB), which also included the other version of Chosen Time that was recorded (1st session, Take 1).

So this new DVD seems to only include tracks that haven't been previously shown. It's possible that the version of Denial is the same as the broadcast one, but it seems more likely that this is the one not broadcast (i.e 2nd session, Take 2). The reason I say this is the order of session 2, which was Dreams Never End, The Him, Procession (Take 2), Senses & Denial (Take 2). The last 4 tracks seem to follow this order.

It seems very odd that they aren't including the actual broadcast songs, although it will be really nice to see the other tracks for once.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Cont'd

Edited by user 19 December 2018 12:28:15(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#65 Posted : 19 December 2018 11:34:14(UTC)
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Very interested to see the other tracks never aired on Riverside. I’m assuming they’re decent quality , wouldn’t be released otherwise. Same goes for the other footage; Peppermint Lounge, Newcastle, Norwich Pennies etc.

Not sure I’ll get the bundle edition with the 4 12” singles. But I don’t actually own the green cover Ceremony ( have all the others in the bundle) so will probably just buy the re-released green sleeve Ceremony,£10,when it’s released 8th March 2019 and buy the non bundle edition Movement Definitive through Amazon £109 so total expense £120. But then there’s postage cost ( from NewOrder store at least, for the Ceremony re-release unless I buy it elsewhere if that’s possible and cheaper)

Edited by user 19 December 2018 12:18:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#66 Posted : 19 December 2018 11:56:33(UTC)
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Oh god, not this old Ceremony chestnut again. I always thought the green sleeve version without Gillian and which was recorded in New Jersey in September 1980 came first in March 1981 and the cream sleeve version which does feature Gillian came later in September 1981. New Order store seem to be stating the green sleeve has the second version ( Gillian included version and which is on Substance) . I want the green sleeve and with the first version ( New Jersey September 80 version, no Gillian though no disrespect to her) . Or have New Order store mixed up? They appear to be stating the green sleeve has the second version. In summary I want the green sleeve with the first version. I don’t want to buy the green sleeve and find it has the second ( September 81 with Gillian) version .

I believe, if I’m not mistaken, New Order store have got the sleeves the wrong way round..The description below the green sleeve is of the cream sleeve release and states it’s a cream sleeve despite the picture showing the green sleeve.

Edited by user 19 December 2018 12:17:14(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
perspexorange  
#67 Posted : 19 December 2018 12:00:13(UTC)
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TV Sessions (Cont'd)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

BBC Riverside 1982
Temptation
Chosen Time
Procession
Hurt – instrumental
Senses
Denial
In A Lonely Place

This appears to be complete. Only the first two tracks were shown at the time, so being able to see all the tracks that weren't broadcast is going to be great. I loved the two tracks shown, so am thrilled to see this.

Gillian at her most goth too!.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Extras

1) Ceremony CoManCHE Student Union

This footage, filmed on 06/02/81, wass included on the 'A Factory Video' VHS and is a nice inclusion here.
It's bit of a shame that the other track from this video (In A Lonely Place, Imperial Cinema, Birmingham, 23/01/82) isn't included.

2) In A Lonely Place Toronto 1981

This is presumably from 15/11/81.
I'm a bit perplexed about this. I didn't know the gig was filmed. Also, it's placement here, just after Ceremony at Comanche, makes me wonder if this is actually the Imperial Cinema footage from 'A Factory Video' and has just been mislabelled. Perhaps the original Factory video was mislabelled instead.
I have a note that there was an item on Toronto TV back in 1981, but I have never seen this. It's therefore possible that the gig was filmed and bits were broadcast on Canadian TV.
Who knows? We'll find out in April.

3) Temptation Soul Kitchen, Newcastle 1982

This is presumably from 11/03/82.
I didn't know this was filmed either.

4) Hurt Le Palace, Paris 1982
5) Procession Le Palace, Paris 1982

I have the first three and half tracks of this gig on a murky bootleg (In A Lonely Place, Temptation, Chosen Time and half of Truth). The footage was taken in the audience and seems to be amateur.
It seems a little unlikely that the new DVD will include audience footage, so a pro-shot video probably exists.
I'm not sure why only the two tracks above were selected. Presumably these 'extra' tracks are just that; bonuses to the two main gigs and two TV shows included on the DVD.

Chosen Time Pennies 1982

This is presumably from 24/05/82.
I didn't know this had been recorded.

Truth The Haçienda 1983

This is presumably from 26/01/83.
I didn't know this was filmed but it would make sense that it was. Most of the band's gigs at this venue appear to have been filmed. For instance the 20/07/83 gig was filmed and shown on 'Play At Home'.

ICB Minneapolis 1983

This 29/06/83 gig has been bootlegged for years.
This is 'pro' footage and is a welcome addition to the new DVD. I only wish more of the gig had been included. Maybe we'll see some of the Power Corruption & Lies tracks from this gig on that box set.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Cont'd
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
perspexorange  
#68 Posted : 19 December 2018 12:14:43(UTC)
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Cont'd

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So what's not included?:

'The Factory Complication' tracks (Everything's Gone Green & Truth from L'Ancienne Belgique)
'Taras Shevchenko'
'A Factory Video' (In A Lonely Place from Imperial Cinema, Birmingham)
'RockAmerica' (Ceremony from the 1981 US tour)
'Celebration ' (the missing tracks, as mentioned above)
Glastonbury 1981 (from the Glasgow DVD, plus other footage if this exists)
Rome 1982 (from the Glasgow DVD, plus other footage if this exists)
Hal 4, Rotterdam (clips of gig and backstage exist)
SO36, Berlin (the complete gig has been circulating for years; excellent pro footage)
Rochdale 1981 (audience clip of Ceremony; possibly other footage exists)
Any other footage from Toronto, Newcastle, Le Palace, Pennies, The Haçienda and Minneapolis (see above).

But these are minor quibbles.
I am LOVING what's being included. April can't come soon enough!

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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
perspexorange  
#69 Posted : 19 December 2018 12:24:28(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Oh god, not this old Ceremony chestnut again. I always thought the green sleeve version without Gillian and which was recorded in New Jersey in September 1980 came first in March 1981 and the cream sleeve version which does feature Gillian came later in September 1981. New Order store seem to be stating the green sleeve has the second version ( Gillian included version and which is on Substance) . I want the green sleeve and with the first version ( New Jersey September 80 version, no Gillian though no disrespect to her) . Or have New Order store mixed up? They appear to be stating the green sleeve has the second version. In summary I want the green sleeve with the first version. I don’t want to buy the green sleeve and find it has the second ( September 81 with Gillian) version .


Yeah. that's certainly what I thought too. As I understand it, the green sleeve was released first and this included the original three-piece version. The cream / blue stripe sleeve came later. I think where the main confusion lies is that both sleeves eventually housed different versions. From Dennis' excellent discography:

"The thing is that the blue stripe cover went through different girations, and three versions exist. First, it was the re-recorded version, and Ceremony's grooves take the whole side. It was withdrawn, and then re-released with the original 3-piece version. Eventually, that was stopped, and the re-recorded version was used again. This time, the grooves span less space. The matrix number also has different values, with A1 and A2 (between the two re-recorded versions). There are also versions of the green cover with the re-recorded version. The only way to tell without playing the record, is to look at the run-off groove notations, as different lyrics are quoted."


So there's only one thing for it, Fotz; you'll have to buy the bundle! Just to be on the safe side. Smile
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#70 Posted : 19 December 2018 14:49:07(UTC)
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Have digested it all a bit more now.£120 is a lot more than i thought it'd be.I was thinking it would be in the £70-£80 ball park even with the expected extras like the book.I guess i'll still fork out for it though.The amount of money i've spent on New Order over the years...phew. But i've spent peanuts compared to some.

I've got very brief clips of Hurrah and they've got stuff like "SONG 1" plastered all over them so looking forward to viewing them in full properly.Can't recall completely what i've seen of Celebration.I know i've seen Ceremony and one or two others that were on the Glasgow DVD and maybe others i've seen on YouTube.I did get a bit lost with all your details of that, perspexorange, in your listing of the various takes and which were aired/weren't aired etc. But i can see their point in not putting stuff on that's already been released on the Glasgow DVD (and DVD space to be taken into consideration, though you could argue they could have done a second DVD for the box but that's all a bit too much) .I'm satisfied they're filling up the DVD with stuff like the rest of the previously unaired songs from Riverside and stuff like Norwich 82.Really curious to see the Peppermint Lounge footage and indeed what kind of quality it is.Think i've watched most of the Minneapolis footage on YouTube (that's the First Avenue gig right?) Wonder if any clean up of the footage on the DVD was needed, i expect some of it required work?

I have the Western Works demos but not the Cargo stuff (at least i don't think i have)

Must have been quite a lot of work compiling this thing.Do they have to buy rights, for example, the Riverside BBC stuff? Did they have to pay a big wad to the lady that was keeping the Hurrah footage all to herself?



Movement was never my favourite NO album, not even in top 3.But i've always liked the songs live so the DVD is the main thing swaying it for me.Hopefully the included book will be a treat for the eyes too (as long as there isn't too much rambling by Morely and/or Savage).
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Dennis Remmer  
#71 Posted : 19 December 2018 19:33:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NotAMod Go to Quoted Post
Absolutely brilliant to hear.


I can vouch that many have worked diligently (James Z Hi, et al) on this edition, and those that will be forthcoming. The project has been brewing for several years.
Getting the Hurrahs and Western Works stuff on there is a small miracle frankly, along with everything else - many many hoops to pass through.

Should be a stunning package - well worth the $$ - and definitive indeed.





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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
perspexorange  
#72 Posted : 19 December 2018 23:20:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dennis Remmer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NotAMod Go to Quoted Post
Absolutely brilliant to hear.


I can vouch that many have worked diligently (James Z Hi, et al) on this edition, and those that will be forthcoming. The project has been brewing for several years.
Getting the Hurrahs and Western Works stuff on there is a small miracle frankly, along with everything else - many many hoops to pass through.

Should be a stunning package - well worth the $$ - and definitive indeed.







I noticed that the Hurrah’s footage is labelled on every website as “Produced, directed and filmed by Merrill Aldighieri” who, I believe, was the DJ at the club and who previously had the snippets on her YouTube page.

I’m guessing that part of the deal was to include her name on any promotion for the set.
Not that I blame her, I guess. I just hope she wasn’t too forceful and held out for a lot of money. This might be part of the reason for the high price tag, I guess (Warners trying to recoup some of their outlay). However, I really have no idea how these sort of things work, so I’m probably wrong.

Either way, I’m just thrilled that we’re getting the stuff. Many thanks to all involved if they read this message.

Oh, and Dennis, it looks like you might have to change your blog name to ‘NewOrderTracks: Ceremony to Homage’. Wink
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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Johnny James  
#73 Posted : 20 December 2018 00:25:14(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
New Order – Movement DVD

Live Shows

Hurrah’s, NY 1980

In A Lonely Place
Procession
Dreams Never End
Mesh
Truth
Cries & Whispers
Denial
Ceremony

Recorded on 27th September, 1980.
Produced, directed and filmed by Merrill Aldighieri

What can I say about this? This is magnificent stuff. Only their fifth NO gig and the band is sans Gillian. Steve singing Procession, Ceremony (verses only, probably, with Hooky doing chorus) & possibly also Cries & Whispers (verses only, with Hooky definitely doing the chorus). That Cries & Whispers chorus only appears on these early live performances. They dropped it for the 12" release.

The clips I've seen of this performance are stunning. Great quality footage of the band in pretty raw form.

The only puzzling thing is 'Denial' being listed. As far as I'm aware, it wasn't played at this gig (I don't think it had been written at this point). Strangely, slicingupeyeballs.com have possibly noticed this and removed it from their report of the track listing.



Denial is definitely NOT on the video, it's an error that crept in on the press sheet and wasn't picked up.

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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Johnny James  
#74 Posted : 20 December 2018 00:30:39(UTC)
Johnny James

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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
Initial comments/observations:

- Tracklist for Ceremony 12"s make reference to "Version 1" and "Version 2" of 'Ceremony' but not for 'In A Lonely Place'. There are two, subtly different versions of this B-side on both releases (more synthesised thunder clap effects on the second version). Wonder if this is an oversight, or will one version erroneously appear on both twelve inches?



In A Lonely Place is the proper and correct 'final' mix that always should have been on there, (re-)released for the first time since the 80s.

That other version that appeared on Substance and on some re-cut vinyl singles (and various releases since) was a slightly earlier take used in error, probably due to the original master being mislaid. This master has been found/recovered now.

Edited by user 20 December 2018 00:31:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
Johnny James  
#75 Posted : 20 December 2018 00:37:39(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Cont'd

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

'RockAmerica' (Ceremony from the 1981 US tour)




This appears to be the CoManCHE footage, which is on there. Looks like you've commented on this video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhW55vb3gbo

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Rocket Mick on 20/12/2018(UTC)
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