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Eimi  
#226 Posted : 29 October 2016 04:59:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: tarbox23 Go to Quoted Post


Sure, he might call Sumner a twat in one sentence, and then praise him the next. That is how people are. Nobody is one dimensional. They love each other, they hate each other.


Nobody is one-dimensional, but it's not normal or healthy to 'hate' someone you love. You might disagree with something or some part of their personality or maybe something makes you annoyed sometimes, but it's neither a normal nor healthy relationship to love someone yet hate someone at the same time. And calling him names like that, then praising him the next seems...odd. Am I the only one who thinks this way? 'That is how people are'????? Nobody I know calls someone names like that then praises them. Nobody I know behaves or has behaved like Hooky.
The fact the New Order made a great album even without him means that kind of conflict and/or personality isn't a necessary ingredient in New Order.
Personality clashes and conflict with Hooky didn't necessarily make the music better- if that was the case MC would have to be bad.

Edited by user 29 October 2016 05:12:53(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 29/10/2016(UTC)
Debaser  
#227 Posted : 29 October 2016 09:12:36(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Eimi Go to Quoted Post

Nobody I know calls someone names like that then praises them. Nobody I know behaves or has behaved like Hooky.


Witness a lads night out in the UK, and by the end of the evening there's a good chance you'll have heard them call each other every name under the sun. They're still friends though.

Originally Posted by: Eimi Go to Quoted Post
The fact the New Order made a great album even without him means that kind of conflict and/or personality isn't a necessary ingredient in New Order.
Personality clashes and conflict with Hooky didn't necessarily make the music better- if that was the case MC would have to be bad.


The logic doesnt follow that MC would have to be bad, just that it's different - which it is. MC is a good album beacuse it's consistent. It's not as good as their 80s output though, and those of us who liked Hook's contribution will have noticed it missing.

Originally Posted by: Eimi Go to Quoted Post
it's neither a normal nor healthy relationship to love someone yet hate someone at the same time.



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ROCKET MICK on 29/10/2016(UTC)
Eimi  
#228 Posted : 29 October 2016 15:22:31(UTC)
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Quote:
Witness a lads night out in the UK, and by the end of the evening there's a good chance you'll have heard them call each other every name under the sun. They're still friends though.

But this isn't a lad's night out- it's a published autobiography. Is it common for people to name-call like that in their autobiographies?
I find Hooky's constant referral of Barney as a 'twat' 'twatto' and of New Order as 'New Odour' to be childish, immature , and stupid.
Whatever his true feelings, at least Barney showed restraint in his book and didn't call Hooky a 'twat'.
Unlike most of you here, I don't find it funny or amusing.

Edited by user 29 October 2016 15:30:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Michael Monkhouse  
#229 Posted : 31 October 2016 04:14:31(UTC)
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I wouldn't read too much into it. Hooky's so one-dimensional he makes Roger Hargreaves read like Sylvia Plath.
Psychologist's report: 'Wanker'.
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Ken Doherty  
#230 Posted : 01 November 2016 16:44:16(UTC)
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Signed copy turned up at the weekend, only read the first for or five chapters but enjoying it so far (although given the size of the book, don't know when I'll have got through the whole thing) - but going by the first chapter, can we blame John Robie for how things turned out?
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ROCKET MICK on 01/11/2016(UTC)
Milkshock  
#231 Posted : 01 November 2016 23:36:55(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Eimi Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
Witness a lads night out in the UK, and by the end of the evening there's a good chance you'll have heard them call each other every name under the sun. They're still friends though.

But this isn't a lad's night out- it's a published autobiography. Is it common for people to name-call like that in their autobiographies?
I find Hooky's constant referral of Barney as a 'twat' 'twatto' and of New Order as 'New Odour' to be childish, immature , and stupid.
Whatever his true feelings, at least Barney showed restraint in his book and didn't call Hooky a 'twat'.
Unlike most of you here, I don't find it funny or amusing.

Quite right which make me believe the abuse is more to do with destabilising the inner workings of the present line up in an attempt to disrupt them going forward. The abuse apportioned to Bernard and in particular Hooky's assertion that Bernard had a problem with Gillian's alleged lack of input makes me feel that's the angle Hooky was working towards when writing the book.
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The Ruts  
#232 Posted : 02 November 2016 02:12:57(UTC)
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Just finished the book (despite my reservations).

Overall, there are enough good stories in it to make it an enjoyable read. Particularly the early years. Once it gets past Brotherhood, then it all blurs into one after a while.

His antagonism towards Barney gets tiring quite quickly, as well as his various jabs at Gillian. And his depiction of Rob pre breakdown has (to my knowledge) never been talked about before. So to portray him as a selfish, bullying tyrant is quite a surprise.

Towards the end, when Hooky stops drinking, is when things get really, really tiring. Yes, I'm often been given the impression that Barney can be a childish brat. But, as he has demonstrated over the last number of years, so can Hooky. So I suspect he's left out his part in the various bust ups.

There were a few clunkers/omissions:

- He thinks the early days of NO were better because they didn't know what they were doing, but laughs at Barney's "out of tune" guitar on Jetstream when played on TV.
- He dismisses Gillian's guitar playing on Sunrise, even though it was actually Barney.
- When discussing Dream Attack, he doesn't mention who was mainly involved with it. Probably because it's rumoured to have been written by Gillian.
- He claims Barney left him to do an interview with Phil Jupitus by himself. But the actual broadcast had him and Steve being interviewed.
- No mention of his MySpace post claiming "This band have split up...I've got a third!"

I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones that immediately sprung to mind.

I came away from the book thinking of Hooky as someone who has realised that he has been playing second fiddle to someone else (be it Ian, Barney, Caroline etc) for most of his life, and is now using the Light to redress the balance. The childish digs and laddish tales of drink and debauchery simply reinforce this. By portraying himself as some swashbuckling Viking, he can disguise the self loathing 60 year old that lurks within him.
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Low Life  
#233 Posted : 02 November 2016 02:17:47(UTC)
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Always loved Hooky when he was in the band, but his constant digs at New Order since his departure have left a sour taste, and judging by all the reviews, I think it's best I give this one a swerve as it will only exacerbate the bad feelings.
Think I prefer to remember the good times...
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Aracri  
#234 Posted : 02 November 2016 12:00:42(UTC)
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Not a bad book at all. Lots of info about gear/equipment and a look deep inside the "privacy" of the band (sometimes it's too much IMO). But let's face the facts: in interviews Hooky always accuse Barney to say bad things about him over 60% of "Chapter and Verse" but that's not the truth. Maybe 7 or 8 pages about "Waiting for the Sirens'Call"'s recording sessions an that's all. On the other hand he calls Barney as twat, dictator, lazy and many other awful things since the first chapter of "Substance".
Peter Who?

UserPostedImage

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Milkshock  
#235 Posted : 03 November 2016 22:52:17(UTC)
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More Hooky nonsense exposed - in his book he alleges that Barney forced Johnny Marr's guitar out of Electronic - but in his own book published yesterday Marr states that Bernard wanted him to play more guitar but that he was more interested in the electronic side of things.

Edited by user 03 November 2016 22:53:02(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Digi Mike  
#236 Posted : 04 November 2016 02:08:53(UTC)
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Fantastic book .... won't have to buy any toilet roll for ages Hi
Come forward a bit, left a bit, forward, stop. That'll do there!
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Eimi  
#237 Posted : 05 November 2016 02:24:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Milkshock Go to Quoted Post
More Hooky nonsense exposed - in his book he alleges that Barney forced Johnny Marr's guitar out of Electronic - but in his own book published yesterday Marr states that Bernard wanted him to play more guitar but that he was more interested in the electronic side of things.


It's clear that Hooky doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's blinded by his anger that he's saying these things.
In this case, I believe Johnny Marr's words, because he actually worked with Bernard in Electronic and knew what it was like.
And it's clear from those words that Barney did not 'force' Johnny Marr's guitar out of the project.
I don't know how Hooky's fans can continue to defend this nonsense that comes out of Hooky's mouth/book.


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Michael Monkhouse  
#238 Posted : 05 November 2016 02:59:51(UTC)
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Yeah, I'm no muso but that's clearly bollocks. In an interview during the first spurt, Marred Johnny said one of the great things about being in Electronic was the chance to play new instruments - and the albums became progressively more guitar-heavy. I don't think Johnny and Hooky are drinking partners either.
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kinozon  
#239 Posted : 05 November 2016 10:39:05(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Eimi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Milkshock Go to Quoted Post
More Hooky nonsense exposed - in his book he alleges that Barney forced Johnny Marr's guitar out of Electronic - but in his own book published yesterday Marr states that Bernard wanted him to play more guitar but that he was more interested in the electronic side of things.


It's clear that Hooky doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's blinded by his anger that he's saying these things.
In this case, I believe Johnny Marr's words, because he actually worked with Bernard in Electronic and knew what it was like.
And it's clear from those words that Barney did not 'force' Johnny Marr's guitar out of the project.
I don't know how Hooky's fans can continue to defend this nonsense that comes out of Hooky's mouth/book.




Whatever they say to each other I will ALWAYS BE A FAN OF The real New Order (Hooky, Sumner, Gilbert & Morris). Sumner can be a twat, Hooky can have a big mouth, Gilbert a none talented musician(according to Hooky), & Morris a tank collector, at the end of the day, we can all agree that those 4 individuals had made incredible music that had touch our life. Hooky fans, Sumner fans, etc... its stupid. I'm a New Order fan....
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ROCKET MICK on 05/11/2016(UTC)
rosygale  
#240 Posted : 05 November 2016 12:29:33(UTC)
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So glad it's not compulsory to read this book, which sounds like a load of codswallop. Doesn’t make his other claims any more credible either. If Hooky wants to be believed on the big stuff, shouldn’t he at least make the rest of it consistent with reality.

Fortunately, the music sounds the same as ever - there is the Hooky of New Order and this other one, the actual one, I don’t recognise.

Edited by user 05 November 2016 12:31:59(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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M1  
#241 Posted : 05 November 2016 14:17:38(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Eimi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Milkshock Go to Quoted Post
More Hooky nonsense exposed - in his book he alleges that Barney forced Johnny Marr's guitar out of Electronic - but in his own book published yesterday Marr states that Bernard wanted him to play more guitar but that he was more interested in the electronic side of things.


It's clear that Hooky doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's blinded by his anger that he's saying these things.
In this case, I believe Johnny Marr's words, because he actually worked with Bernard in Electronic and knew what it was like.
And it's clear from those words that Barney did not 'force' Johnny Marr's guitar out of the project.
I don't know how Hooky's fans can continue to defend this nonsense that comes out of Hooky's mouth/book.




Yep, I've heard Johnny remark on that before, tracking back to the final Smiths album which had minimal-to-no guitars on some tracks


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keepitcoming  
#242 Posted : 06 November 2016 22:00:08(UTC)
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Apparently, Peter had hoped Die Moldau would be the intro music for the year's MC shows, but Bernard and Tom And Jonny thought that Das Reingold would be be best ,and also cause Peter to be exasperated. Peter , also , it has been heard, feels that Bernard should make another Prozac album, as he really likes and listens to' raise the pressure 'side 2, almost as often as republic , side 1.
Peter further insists that if action figures of new order are created for the suave sophisticates on both sides of the pond , that his figure be 1mm taller than Gillian, and that the Tom figure be somewhat in awe of the Peter figure. And he insists that grand theft auto -manchester to burnley , by way of maccclesfield be extra bad and mod and focus upon Hooky
We're like kestrels
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ROCKET MICK on 06/11/2016(UTC)
Burai  
#243 Posted : 13 November 2016 11:14:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: M1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Eimi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Milkshock Go to Quoted Post
More Hooky nonsense exposed - in his book he alleges that Barney forced Johnny Marr's guitar out of Electronic - but in his own book published yesterday Marr states that Bernard wanted him to play more guitar but that he was more interested in the electronic side of things.


It's clear that Hooky doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's blinded by his anger that he's saying these things.
In this case, I believe Johnny Marr's words, because he actually worked with Bernard in Electronic and knew what it was like.
And it's clear from those words that Barney did not 'force' Johnny Marr's guitar out of the project.
I don't know how Hooky's fans can continue to defend this nonsense that comes out of Hooky's mouth/book.




Yep, I've heard Johnny remark on that before, tracking back to the final Smiths album which had minimal-to-no guitars on some tracks




That was also partly because he walked out before they finished it.

Johnny and Bernard have both been on the record several times about Electronic. The original plan was for a series of anonymous, purely electronic, instrumental EPs to act as a detox for the shit they'd each just been through. Guitars were never supposed to be involved at all. Lucky Bag, Soviet, Free Will and Reality (before they added lyrics) were the result of that approach but it gradually morphed into the album we ended up with.

As has been stated Johnny really fell in love with the synths because he was well out of his comfort zone but they just did what they had fun with. It's often been stated by Sumner that Marr got so carried away with the synths that he had to remind him to get the guitar out every now and again. Marr never thought to even try singing until Sumner talked him into it for Haze on Twisted Tenderness and now he's a solo artist, writing and singing his own songs. Electronic was two mates having fun, covering a wide range of tones and genres and each of them learning off each other.

Hooky can fuck right off with that shite.
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Spittingcat  
#244 Posted : 14 November 2016 05:11:13(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: The Ruts Go to Quoted Post

- When discussing Dream Attack, he doesn't mention who was mainly involved with it. Probably because it's rumoured to have been written by Gillian.


https://www.mdmarchive.c...amp;aid=1864&bid=693

And WHAT a tune.

Reminds me, always disappointed when Gillian does the self deprecating thing and describes herself as the "keyboard player" in New Order. Sells herself short. But perhaps she's had to work with some male egos that make that approach essential. I mean BS as much as PH here by the way.
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ROCKET MICK on 14/11/2016(UTC)
JG  
#245 Posted : 14 November 2016 10:02:04(UTC)
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Last week in Manchester at a launch event for his memoir, Johnny Marr spoke very highly of Gillian.

Johnny described Gillian as the first cool English woman to visit America.

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Michael Monkhouse  
#246 Posted : 15 November 2016 01:35:32(UTC)
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The sad thing is he'll say any old shite just for attention. The sadder thing is it's working.
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ROCKET MICK on 15/11/2016(UTC)
Jonathan  
#247 Posted : 15 November 2016 02:40:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
The sad thing is he'll say any old shite just for attention. The sadder thing is it's working.


Unclear if you mean Hooky or Marr, here, given the previous posts; but I guess you mean Hooky.
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ROCKET MICK on 15/11/2016(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#248 Posted : 15 November 2016 02:58:24(UTC)
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ROCKET MICK on 15/11/2016(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#249 Posted : 16 November 2016 05:05:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Spittingcat Go to Quoted Post


I'm a sucker for alternate titles. That sentence also works without the last two syllables.

http://www.new-order.net.../facs/workingtitles.html
http://imgur.com/zWAQY0J
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ROCKET MICK on 16/11/2016(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#250 Posted : 24 November 2016 06:31:03(UTC)
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Today's recommended reading is Steve Jones' biography for its articulate, insightful and informative commentary on the composition process, the Pistols' continued relevance and of course the socio-political, economic strife of the period: 'Fuck, this fucking photo must be from one of those fucking gigs we fucking did, I don't fucking remember, you think I had a fucking diary for fuck's sake, I was too fucking pissed anyway. Fuck, what a fucking photo.'
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ROCKET MICK on 29/11/2016(UTC)
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