Not that I'm arguing, but this version states it has the 8:02 edit:

https://www.discogs.com/...1330-New-Order-Substance

Of course, Discogs could be wrong (like the aforementioned 'Murder' location), and I can no longer check my cassette copies to verify.

I agree with you. On discogs and Facebook, they are all complaining about the CDs and the vinyls.

I've listened CD1and CD2 today. The sound quality is far better than my 1987 original 2CD!

This also describes my experience of Shellshock.

Yep sorry - you are correct, I had mis-remembered the page on the MDM archive as being a DAT
https://www.mdmarchive.c...W_ORDER_MASTER_TAPE_1987

Tape is a C90 and Subculture starts around 43 minutes into the set, so the tape flip idea is clearly spot on, but is it a patched edit or the two tracks dropped in lock, stock and barrel from the other two shows I wonder

Just listened to the live CD4. If 'Subculture' and 'Shellshock' are both composites of the two performances, I have no clue where the edit is. I expected to hear an obvious point in both where the mix or sound quality changes, but I hear nothing. Johnny, are the two tracks completely taken from the other performances?

Gotta say, CD4 is astonishing. That has to be New Order's best ever gig, surely? Must have been so exciting after 'Temptation' kicked in, then 'Blue Monday' started and the crowd began to realise they're doing it.... They're playing their first 12 twelve inches in order. Eventually being certain what song was going to come next. Decades before most bands were playing classic albums live in their entirety. Love it - almost brought me to tears hearing my favourite album live. 80s sequencers; ramshackle; mastered from an old cassette; Barney adding his trademark rude lyrics to 'The Perfect Kiss', then cracking up; singing songs in the wrong octave as he often did back then; proper punk. 'Ceremony' sounding the best live it ever has; 'True Faith' in the same classic original live arrangement they used right up to Reading 1993 (wish they'd go back to that version live these days); hell, even 'State Of The Nation' rocks. Must be my favourite New Order live recording. Steve was saying in that recent 6 Music interview that they couldn't find any good live recordings of 'Shellshock', but that version back then was awesome - so electronic, experimental and playful. Although the crowd noise is quiet, I love the great screams you can hear as each single starts playing - amazing reaction. Even having the audio artefacts from the cassette gives it a lovely authenticity you wouldn't have got from a DAT soundboard. So glad this has been released.

My CD box from Amazon was also a bit squashed and creased, but I'm keeping it like that - reminds me of my weathered old double tape box. And once it's been ripped into my audio library, it'll probably sit in a box in the attic anyway.

Only downside of CD4 is 'The Passenger' intro to 'True Faith' is edited out (obviously with Barney's cheeky comments just before it) - I always thought that 'Passenger' intro was inspired, hearing it with the 'True Faith' snare drum playing in the background, then clumsily falling into the 'True Faith' beat. Was it removed for publishing/licencing reasons Johnny? I agree with other comments that it'd also be great if 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' and 'Sister Ray' could be released digitally so we can get the whole concert. Would love to hear how the crowd reacted to 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' starting up.

So jealous of everyone who was there - is there anyone on this forum that was at it?

Edited by user 12 November 2023 10:51:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

That's really interesting about the US cassette - never knew the full length version was on any Substance tapes.

Amazed you still have a working tape player!

Also possible you were thinking of the 'Low-life' cassette which featured the full versions of all three TPK 12" tracks across the end of both sides..

Wow, some additional stuff i'm hearing for the first time on the first few seconds of Dub Vulture. WTF? Never heard that before.

The US cassette for Low-life doesn't include those.

What do you mean?

From what i've listened to so far on streaming, i like the remastered Substance. I know nothing about all that dynamic range technical stuff etc. so can only describe what i hear. Think i've read people mention 'fatiguing' either in the orginal or new reissue. I'd say the new release is anything but fatiguing. I could possibly listen to discs 1-3 in one sitting. It glides and isn't dull sounding like i often heard the orginal LP or CD. Parts that were once a bit brutal or irritating are now great to hear.A clarity and freshness in the tracks.

I actually changed my mind about keeping my 4 CD copy that turned up with creased spines, so a replacement will be arriving from them tomorrow, after which I have until early December to send the first one back for the refund.

I expect the second copy to also get squished in the card envelope or when it goes through the letterbox, but will keep my fingers crossed.

Did anyone order from UK stores other than Amazon and got them in good condition due to better packaging? Any recommendations as to a store I could use?

What was the packaging like from the New Order store?

Edited by user 13 November 2023 07:17:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I ordered the red/blue "indies" double vinyl, 4 CD expanded edition and double cassette each from different retailers. All arrived on time, and in fairness to the NO store which has delivered late in the past, I received the double cassette on day of release. I bought the 3 x 12" single reissues in person from Rough Trade East in London and accompanying 24-Bit audio from Qobuz (reliable as ever). Having a Hi-Res version of True Faith / 1963 is brilliant, not to mention the full 10+ minute True Dub into the bargain. I couldn't be more underwhelmed by BM88 (original or reissue) but the completist in me said "you sort of have to, don't you?". That said, this is the first time I didn't bother with the "super duper wuper deluxe" offering from the NO store; it seemed very expensive and didn't offer the coloured vinyl, so I stand by that decision, tbh.

I think the (re)mastering of the 4 CD set is fine and you'll never please some people. Is it a touch loud? Perhaps, but nowhere near as bad as the Sirens-era CDs and pragmatically, the original 36 year-old Factory mastering desperately needed an upgrade while being able to compete in the 21st century's audio landscape. Those on Discogs moaning it's not "dynamically pure" are of course, welcome to their opinion but "FFS" is all I'll say. It's a great compromise and I can hear aspects of the music more clearly, as well as a better lower end. Far more than I ever could on the original Facd200. True Faith in particular, we've languished with that '87 mastering for far too long. Virtually all compilation appearances of that track have been edited, remixed, repurposed or whatever but it was rare to find a modern sounding mastering beyond Substance. International from 2002 came close as did the 2009 Factory Communications 4 CD box-set (my preference was the latter).

My one small, overall complaint is the reissue packaging across all 3 formats is admittedly a little basic and feels a bit cheap. I have no doubt this helped make the 4 CD set all the more affordable so... swings and roundabouts. I gladly would've shelled out for an additional and slightly more expensive "Definitive Edition" box, with the CDs, vinyl and a book as per the recent album ones, but I'm happy with what we got. More than happy, in fact.

Somehow, I was keener to pick this one up in person on release date than with the albums. New Order will always be predominantly a singles band to me, and I guess I'm probably not alone?

I agree i think it sounds great on spotify...definately better than when i last streamed it not tall that long ago

Quite strange really as when i last listened to it(having not listened to it for 20+ years) oddly the week before the remaster was announced i didn't get all the way through it and commented to my daughter about how it sounded a little dull

Saturday night after a couple of cans i had a listen....ended up listening to every song and really enjoyed it...loved the live gig but i was about 12 cans in by then

My cd case was a little squased but nothing major....will go and sit with the others in a cupboard as i don't actually have anything to pay it on