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tapebias  
#76 Posted : 19 February 2021 10:36:25(UTC)
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Can you imagine how bad demo versions of State of the Nation and Shellshock must be compared to the woeful finished ones. Subculture-Shellshock-State were an unholy trinity of bad singles in a row.

The only thing that kept my faith was I had a tape of BLT live at Hemel Hampstead 85 so knew they must just being going through a spell of taking too many drugs and/or hanging out with John Robie and would be out of their system soon.

Edited by user 19 February 2021 10:37:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
markreed  
#77 Posted : 19 February 2021 12:32:20(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: markreed Go to Quoted Post


It gets a bit tricky around "Shame Of The Nation" and the demo of "As It Is, When It Was" as both (technically) appear in some form on the Brotherhood CD, but were recorded for a provisional Japan-only EP around the time of the May 1985 tour. The A-side version of "State" is, I think, a complete re-recording from 1986. I tried putting Shame/State together in extended form, and the sonics are so different it was unlistenable.




Hmm, I have a vague memory of talking about this before with someone, but can't remember who I was talking to or what we determined.
It was possibly on this forum or by email. Wish I could remember.

So, there were at least two tracks to be included on this EP ('AIIWIW' and 'Shame')? So 'Shame' was recorded at a different point to 'State'?
Is there a demo lurking around of 'Shame'?

Any idea what the other tracks on the EP may have been ('Let's Go' possibly)?

Skullcrusher / Solitude is certainly from that era, live-wise at least (first played 31/03/84)
Weirdo too (first played 16/07/85)

There's also Love Juice Wink. First played live 23/05/85


In the Hooky book he suggests that this recording session was "some point around Brotherhood" when they used a session in Japan to record the two songs, and to mix the Pumped Full Of Drugs soundtrack, with "State Of The Nation" (produced by New Order) being described only as a "newer version". Presumably they weren't happy with the recording of "Shame" produced by John Robie and relegated it to the B-side. I seem to remember hearing this early version of "As It Was" on a bootleg tape about 30 years but no idea where that is now.
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perspexorange on 19/02/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#78 Posted : 19 February 2021 12:40:53(UTC)
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Thanks for the info.

I must've read that at the time (when reading Hooky's book), but have since forgotten it.

I have the AIIWIW demo digitally, but it's a pretty poor recording. You're right - it must've been doing the rounds for 30+ years. Think I originally had it on an old cassette back in the day too.

To be fair, it's not much different from the Brotherhood version (as you'd expect, based on the style of the song).
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ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
markreed  
#79 Posted : 19 February 2021 14:26:57(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the info.

I must've read that at the time (when reading Hooky's book), but have since forgotten it.

I have the AIIWIW demo digitally, but it's a pretty poor recording. You're right - it must've been doing the rounds for 30+ years. Think I originally had it on an old cassette back in the day too.

To be fair, it's not much different from the Brotherhood version (as you'd expect, based on the style of the song).


I just checked the inner sleeve of "State Of The Nation" - the A side appears to have been recorded in Japan in April 1985 and the B-side Shame recorded in London, Manchester and LA between October 1985-April 1986. Looks like they worked too hard on that song!

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ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#80 Posted : 19 February 2021 14:44:51(UTC)
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for once, i'm on the opposite site of the spectrum.

i loved the subculture mixes, stutter effects and all. and of course the 'truer' razormaid remixes, which elevated the album version for those that didn't want
the fancy effects, disco beat, and soul vocalists (although a couple of the razormaid mixes did have a lady singing at the end).

and since there was no album on the horizon, we got both of the incredibly cool non-album tracks, of 'state of the nation', and 'shellshock'.

at this point, i couldn't recognize a saville cover instantly, or new order artwork, but as soon as i saw them, i knew i had to find out what they were (alex!),
and of course they were new order. so they already had me at the artwork.

state of the nation was cool in its downbeat tone, and lyrics, and shellshock has a unique sound to it that no other group besides them could do,
and of course both of them were extended beautifully. i didn't get the 7 inches for any of these until many years later.

so yeah, new order might have been in a decline for some people, and even for me, brotherhood was the last straw for their albums, after low-life was decent,
so i guess it was foretelling the direction they were going to go in, at least to me.

later
-1
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ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#81 Posted : 19 February 2021 15:18:29(UTC)
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When I first discovered New Order properly (through Substance), I really liked the remix of ‘Sub-Culture’.
When I heard the ‘proper’ version on ‘Low Life’ I rapidly went off the remix. I don’t mind it now but it pales in comparison to the LP version.

‘State Of The Nation’ was one of only a handful of tracks I really disliked back in the day (alongside ‘Face Up’ and ‘Every Little Counts’).
The years have been kind to all of those three tracks for me, and I like them all now (I will point out, I only ever had a problem with the LP version of ‘Face Up’; live versions always sound brilliant).

Shellshock, I’ve always loved.

As regards the woman wailing on the Razormaid remixes of Sub-Culture, that’s Deborah Iyall of the band Romeo Void.

They had a hit with the (rather good) ‘Never Say Never’ back in 1982.
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ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
markreed  
#82 Posted : 19 February 2021 16:09:38(UTC)
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Here's the only remix of Subculture worth anytime in your life.

https://www.youtube.com/...;ab_channel=NoiseRecords

The e-e-e-e-edit! of the John Robie TIGHT! mix .... all those mixes are utter garbage. "Dubvulture" is the worst New Order b-side of the Factory years, chased up very tightly by "Shame Of The Nation" and "Shellcock", the common denominator between all three being John Robie.

I always find it laughable that when John Robie appears in NewOrderStory during his intro, he's clearly playing some new track he's very proud of because he's knows he's going to be on the New Order documentary ..... nobody would play a song they didn't think was any good... and the track is playing is boring.
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ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#83 Posted : 21 February 2021 23:58:12(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: markreed Go to Quoted Post
I sincerely hope they do include PFD on there, as as far as I can remember, its only been officially released on DVD in Japan and NZ/Aus. My DVD of it also has a crack in, and I don't fancy tracking down a 20 year old pop music DVD only released in three countries if I can help it.

Video material : Tokyo, Leuven, Rotterdam, Toronto. I do wish the whole of Stephen's single-camera camcorder archive would get uploaded to YT though, rather than one or two songs each as box set extras.

Audio : hopefully we can get the rough mix of "Sunrise", one of the "Perfect Kiss" rehearsals (I think the VHS/DVD, 12", and 2008 bonus disc have different takes on, if you listen to the ending), one of the longer Razormaid mixes of "Subculture" as its got different Hooky bass on, and tbh, lots of demos. I suspect "Lets Go" and "Skullcrusher" were also demo'ed at this time given that they were played live.

There's no mileage in listening to say, 17 different mixes of "Face Up" with different bass takes on. There's an 18 track GNR leak, with a 3 minute song, and 17 different versions of the guitar solo on. That's not interesting even if you like GNR.


I would speculate that the previous night at the same venue may have also been documented as a practice run/dress rehearsal for the video production. Can anyone confirm this?

Audio of the 3 tracks omitted from the PFD video: Dime

Edited by user 22 February 2021 00:01:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#84 Posted : 22 February 2021 02:05:25(UTC)
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Here’s an interesting thing about PFD.

Did you know that the DVD version is a slightly different video mix to the VHS?
There are certain bits we here different camera angles are used. I can’t remember where exactly, but they’re definitely subtly different.
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negative1 on 22/02/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#85 Posted : 22 February 2021 02:55:53(UTC)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgAajOf4YSM
One of the funniest moments of my life was a 'Best Of NO' review saying, 'If you can tell between R+R 94 and the original, you need to get out more.' Because I could and did. But those days are over. Only the Beatles, the Sex Pistols and the Spice Girls deserve my brain cell.
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ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#86 Posted : 22 February 2021 08:42:59(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Here’s an interesting thing about PFD.

Did you know that the DVD version is a slightly different video mix to the VHS?
There are certain bits we here different camera angles are used. I can’t remember where exactly, but they’re definitely subtly different.


I have the DVD from Japan, but my VHS copy, and a means of playing it, are long gone.

...and "interesting" is subjective (heresy to a collector, I know).

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Mr. Disco on 22/02/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
Qif586  
#87 Posted : 22 February 2021 09:30:06(UTC)
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It would be brilliant if any live footage for the DVD's could be cleaned up using AI and upscaled to (at least) 1080p and 60fps, the video's on Youtube where this has been done (for the odd song here and there) look amazing!!

I don't have a clue how much time this would take or how much it would cost - so may be prohibitive... Am very grateful for all the time and effort that has been put into the boxsets already...




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ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#88 Posted : 22 February 2021 12:44:59(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post

...and "interesting" is subjective (heresy to a collector, I know).



I dunno guys.
I come here to talk a bit of New Order (weird eh?) and it seems that this is getting up people's noses a bit.

Sorry I spoke...

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ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#89 Posted : 22 February 2021 14:01:23(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post

...and "interesting" is subjective (heresy to a collector, I know).



I dunno guys.
I come here to talk a bit of New Order (weird eh?) and it seems that this is getting up people's noses a bit.

Sorry I spoke...



well until someone checks we won't know.

i'm still getting vhs, dvds, and many other items right now,
so it's all relevant to me , if there are differences, and they will show up.

later
-1

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ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
Mr. Disco  
#90 Posted : 22 February 2021 14:53:07(UTC)
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My VHS is also gone. All I have is the DVD, so its hard to spot any differences throughout the gig, but that intro most certainly wasn't on the original tape:

UserPostedImage UserPostedImage
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negative1 on 22/02/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#91 Posted : 22 February 2021 16:27:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post

...and "interesting" is subjective (heresy to a collector, I know).



I dunno guys.
I come here to talk a bit of New Order (weird eh?) and it seems that this is getting up people's noses a bit.

Sorry I spoke...


Yikes! Not sure why you took that comment so hard. Where should I send the flowers?

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negative1 on 22/02/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#92 Posted : 22 February 2021 17:08:02(UTC)
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“Interesting is subjective” seems to me to be saying “this isn't interesting, it’s boring and of no interest to me and/or possibly others”.

Unless I’m mistaken.


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negative1 on 22/02/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 24/02/2021(UTC)
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