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Andy  
#51 Posted : 03 January 2021 11:54:17(UTC)
Andy

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Originally Posted by: Fractured Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
The PCL set was beautiful, and Bernard's Renegade mix of 'Be A Rebel' was sublime. Looking forward to the live DVD in April, but need something more to keep me motivated in early 2021... So, Mr James... When's the 'Low-life' definitive boxed-set due..?


I could say that it's tentatively scheduled for Autumn, but that is so likely to shift. Who really knows.



Thanks for all your work on these sets. A question: The music on the Definitive Editions is available as official, paid downloads, but what about the tracks left off for reasons of space that were available and in consideration?

For years I've favored tangible CDs and records over downloads, but having started an account at Qobuz to buy lossless music otherwise unavailable, I have to admit - it's not that bad.

Have there been any discussions along those lines?



There appears to be much debate between concerned parties over what should/shouldn't be included in the sets. To add another layer of approval would probably delay the process.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
Fractured  
#52 Posted : 03 January 2021 12:46:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post



There appears to be much debate between concerned parties over what should/shouldn't be included in the sets. To add another layer of approval would probably delay the process.


But I believe the delays were due to the limits of fitting material on the single CD of bonus tracks, thus keeping the sets within a certain production budget. By releasing everything via paid download sites there is no manufacturing cost involved.

If the Definitive box sets remain a matter of careful negotiation between all parties, perhaps that can't be changed. But since the music exists, and because releasing it for sale affords the band certain copyright protections, there is every advantage to making it available.

For example, for the Movement era, sell lossless versions of:

-Complete Western Works and Cargo demos (One mix of "Dreams Never End" was omitted).

-"Haystack" with Kevin Hewitt.

-All takes from the "Ceremony" sessions and leftover demos omitted from the Definitive edition.

-All sides/versions from the "Ceremony," "Procession," and "Everything's Gone Green" singles (To include both the trio and quartet recordings of "Ceremony," both mixes of "In a Lonely Place," 7" edits of both tracks, and 7" and 12" versions of "EGG" plus "Procession," "Cries and Whispers," and "Mesh").

-1981 Peel Session including any outtakes.

-Movement.


For Power, Corruption and Lies:

-All music recorded for The Hacienda ("Prime/Video 5-8-6," "Rocking Carol," "Ode to Joy").

-All three outtakes of "Temptation," the alternate 12" version on the Collector's Edition, and 7" and 12" versions of "Temptation," "Hurt," "Blue Monday," and The Beach."

-1982 Peel Session including all outtakes and rough mixes.

-Writing session recordings of "Thieves," "Murder," and "Blue Monday"

-Both instrumental outtakes of "B.M."

-"Blue Monday" multitracks (Currently floating around online - by including them the public is afforded a view into the band's creative process, the song is given pride of place, and new DJs have the component parts to do their own mixes), all demos/takes, and promo/video edit.

-All mixes of "Confusion."

-All three versions of "Song One" ("Thieves Like Us") unedited, all released versions of "Thieves," "Murder," and "Lonesome Tonight" including 7" edits, instrumentals, and the version of "Murder" with the count-in from the Collector's Edition.

-Power, Corruption and Lies.


Some of this material is available for lossless download already. By making it all available, the band can truly give an accurate picture of its creative evolution.

Edited by user 03 January 2021 13:15:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 2 users thanked Fractured for this useful post.
negative1 on 03/01/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#53 Posted : 03 January 2021 13:12:42(UTC)
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I like the idea, I'm just saying not everyone concerned probably shares the belief that there is value in releasing absolutely everything.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
50poundnote  
#54 Posted : 03 January 2021 13:24:09(UTC)
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No band is going to release absolutely everything. Some things remain unheard for a reason, and the glut of material degrades the listening experience of a carefully curated box.
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Andy on 03/01/2021(UTC), murphmanz on 04/01/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
Fractured  
#55 Posted : 03 January 2021 13:31:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
I like the idea, I'm just saying not everyone concerned probably shares the belief that there is value in releasing absolutely everything.


Absolutely! But there's a track record of success for what I'm proposing, given what we've seen from archival releases from everyone from Iggy and the Stooges and The Monkees to Bob Dylan. The quality of New Order's music, and its historical importance, justify a complete collection - via lossless digital or physical media.

It's a beautiful journey, and every step is worth taking.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
Fractured  
#56 Posted : 03 January 2021 14:02:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
No band is going to release absolutely everything. Some things remain unheard for a reason, and the glut of material degrades the listening experience of a carefully curated box.


And we still would have those curated collections in the various best of/singles releases, Retro, the Collector's Editions, and the Definitive Editions. But for those of us who want to hear the evolution of the material, and historians who want to understand how it is created, offer everything available.

Even if the band opted for issuing the stuff on compact disc, which would be my preference, we're not talking about all that much. For example, for Low-Life we're talking perhaps two CDs' worth of demos and rough mixes, as well as the "Sunrise" instrumental version and edit already released on compilations? Add another CD for all mixes/edits of "The Perfect Kiss" and "Sub-culture." The album itself is a fifth disc.

Imagine a similar amount of unreleased material for Brotherhood, plus a CD to collect all mixes of "Shellshock," "State of the Nation," and "BLT." The album becomes a fourth disc. If we factor in "Salvation," its known outtakes/demos, the alternate version of the title track previously released, and the edits/mixes of "Touched by the Hand of God," that's a fifth disc.

There are rough mixes of "Blue Monday 1988" known to exist. Add all of the available mixes and edits and you probably have a very full sixth CD.

With Technique imagine three CDs worth of sessions, roughs, and instrumentals, to include the demos/sessions sold on eBay. "Fine Time," "Round & Round," and "Run 2" (including the Warner Bros. tapes we've heard about) plus "The Happy One" and "Intermede Musical" No.s 1 - 6 could fit across two discs. The album becomes a sixth CD. Again, very feasible in physical form.

A wildcard: Do the recordings made for TV shows like "Making Out" (which inspired "Vanishing Point" and other material) and "World in Action" exist in the band's archive? Those are important pieces of the puzzle.

But at the very least, make it all available in lossless quality for purchase and download.

Edited by user 03 January 2021 14:05:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked Fractured for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
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