But Gillian is not just a helping hand now. Maybe first she was brought in to help out on the guitars/synths, but it's clear her input and her contributions increased compared to when she first joined in 1981. I imagine her musical contribution is greater on the album 'Technique' or on 'World In Motion' than on 'Movement' or perhaps even 'Power, Corruption, and Lies'. Also, in the article of Stephen Hague talking about the making of 'True Faith' (the article was maybe from 10 years ago), he says that Gillian had thought of some keyboard parts or something like that. I don't remember the exact quote, but basically, she wasn't just doing what she was told even in the making of True Faith.
I don't understand why Peter Hook refuses to understand that and why he acts like she was just a touring/supporting musician.
He is definitely too harsh on her. He seems to think that she was never a true member.

PS- the lawsuit situation is about Hooky getting paid for New Order's activities without him- not about the back catalogue royalties, I think.

Edited by user 24 October 2016 02:37:53(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Its clear from Michael Butterworth's book that Gillian's contribution in the P,C&L era was substantial. From the "Girl In A Band" documentary we know she also wrote the majority of "World In Motion" too. Perhaps she didn't contribute as much during the Republic phase of the group, but I'm not sure that reflects her entire career (and I don't think we can assume a linear extrapolation either). I've yet to read exactly what Hooky wrote, though.

I am only 70 pages into the book but what you have written here sums up those pages pretty well. Not sure I can face into the rest of the book if it is as negative and depressing as this. The constant reference to Barney as "a twat but then he was a brilliant musician/lyricist but he is still a twat" is tiresome. I am going to have to re-read Barney's book because I don't seem to recall the constant snipping at Hooky.

Steve's book could be one to look forward to alright. If he deploys his quirky sense of humour, it will be a cracking read.

TF1.0

You may be right!
Here's something I wrote years ago and nothing's changed my mind since then so I'll just copy 'n' paste (like porn):
I think his comments here and elsewhere undermining The Other Two's contributions to the New Order cannon are more a reflection of his own shit-stirring tactics than the reality. For a start, pinpointing exactly how much an individual gives to a song is harder than my vicar's tackle during Grange Hill, which is why most artists don't bother - the classic example is Lennon-McCartney which was used as a kind of fits-all moniker, though it's obvious that (for example) Yesterday is a Paul track, Give Peace a Chance a John track. Plus I've read Procession was mainly Steve's... World in Motion was mainly Gillian's on the basis of her and Steve's Reportage theme (Bernard, 'This may be the way of the future')... Avalanche is The Other Two, surely... And on all releases from 87 to 97 (I'm including the Rest Of and Video 586 'cause I'm a silly little arse) Hooky is the least present, but this is probably more to do with poptastic limpwristed producers than his initial contribution. (The obvious case is Hague on Republic... In '92 Hook said the new album would be rockier anbd in 93 he told a guitar mag he liked to feed a bassline into the equipment then play over it, but Hague hadn't used his overtracking on songs like World.)

Bernard barely refers to Hooky until the final sections, where he describes the fall out. I think that's his way of snubbing Hooky. Although, I think Steve and Gillian also only gets a few mentions. Its an odd choice, to write a book about being in joy division and new order, but not describing your relationships with the members, apart from a bit about Ian.

I honestly don't believe a lot of what he's said I think he's purposely trying to cause trouble with a lot of what Bernard apparently said and did against Gillian

He even tries to cause a bit of grief for him by mentioning him saying the Vikings annoyed him

The book should''ve come with a free wooden spoon

I agree with you - Slow Jam along with Rock the Shit are career low points for me - however, I don't think it's due to lyrics not being shared. In interviews Sumner has always talked as if wrote all lyrics anyway. There's a famous quote about him saying he wrote the lyrics on PC&L, sub-consciously, and they turned out more meaningful than Movement.

Lyrically speaking, Technique and Republic are most adept. I don't know why that is, but note they weren't far apart in years. Electronic in between, which is also pretty solid. Some people have said that's also when Sumner's vocals were at his strongest...

Edited by user 26 October 2016 15:24:47(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Don't forget the track where he references The Corrs, Behind Closed Doors was the one I think..

Edited by user 27 October 2016 04:49:19(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

New Order always made it *ABSOLUTELY* clear that they had not formally split.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...ntertainment/6909106.stm

They continued to say the band hadn't split. And, whilst they never said "Gillians got cancer, so we're calling ourselves Bad Lieutenant for a bit", that's what happened.

What happened was Hook left. He thought the original 1981 agreement that 'if one of us leaves, we split' still applied, even though in 2000 one of them left and they didn't split. Hook thought he split the group, where really he'd just split from the group.

if I reformed an old company, there's no way in hell I'd ask the guy who left my business, slagged me off in public, and was suing me if he'd like to work with me again.

Anyway, he should get fuck all from the band's activities in their current incarnation, except for maybe a pittance for participating in the band to 2007 and thus allowing them to a certain degree of viable recognition when they reformed - maybe 5% of the bands overall profit, even though he's not contributing one second of work to the band in nine years and actively trying to undermine their commercial viability.

I doubt Hook pays the rest of New Order 3.75% of his earnings for the brand recognition New Order and Joy Division have given his solo career - the one where he's played 400 gigs and not released one original song with The Light in their entire fucking lifetime despite selling T-shirts that are borderline legal in how much they resemble New Order's intellectual property.

And I say this as a fan of his music - and Hook's live shows are very very good - but really, he's letting his fury at a percieved injustice blind him to the stakes. He could end up having to pay all of New Order's legal fees if he loses. This really is a high stakes Death Or Glory case.

Of course, if New Order have not honoured any legal agreement made regarding the 1980-2007 money, they need to cough up.

I eagerly await his next missive about keyboard warriors in the 1,000 page book about the making of One True Passion where he seems to sleep with every female on the planet bar Gillian and sets fire to his money.

Which gig? Was it under a different title (with different lyrics) at the time? It ended up being a far better track than anything else Revenge produced.

I was under the impression it was written for The Mrs Merton Show

'Tender' was also a Revenge track originally... played at some of their final gigs I believe. It's a highlight of Hook's solo output and perhaps one of his best (studio) vocal performances.

By the end as Revenge were morphing into Monaco, he'd clearly found a solid song-writing partner in David Potts.

Even 'State of Shock' on the GWP EP still stands up as a solid track decades later.

For some reason I prefer Revenge to Monaco, even though I accept Monaco produced better material. Maybe I just prefer the sleeves...

Read his book and you will know who "Under the Stars" was written about.

I am loving the book, nearly finished with it, at about 1995 right now.

Been a fan since 1985, and am loving his angle on New Order; it is completely Hook. It is why I always loved this band, a result of all the differing angles and personalities that somehow coalesced into some of the most fantastic music.

This text is just like his basslines. Human, jarring, aggressive, and always as honest as one can be.

Sure, he might call Sumner a twat in one sentence, and then praise him the next. That is how people are. Nobody is one dimensional. They love each other, they hate each other.

It created some fantastic music.

I highly recommend the book. It is good to read about all the behind-the-scenes madness, and I am glad Hook revealed so much, compared to the relatively tame mission statement style book that Sumner put out...