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Fotz  
#201 Posted : 07 August 2020 09:51:22(UTC)
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^ Thanks for posting.Looks like that was recorded at the same time as the Movement ones (same clothes etc.)
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
perspexorange  
#202 Posted : 07 August 2020 11:59:24(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
^ Thanks for posting.Looks like that was recorded at the same time as the Movement ones (same clothes etc.)


Yep I noticed that too.

I'm guessing they've recorded them for the first few LPs, at the very least.


Damn - these sort of videos just make the wait until 02/10/20 seem longer.
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#203 Posted : 08 August 2020 05:41:43(UTC)
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Question regarding the PCL extras CD. What's the distinction between "Writing Session Recordings" as opposed to "Demos" (which we had on Movement)?
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
Debaser  
#204 Posted : 08 August 2020 08:31:36(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

As regards ‘Mesh’ and ‘Cries & Whispers’, I’d personally preserve the order as per the ‘Substance’ cassette and amend the artwork to reflect the correct titles. That seems the most logical approach, with the LP sounding the same as previously released but with titles corrected.

Seconded.

As for TBTHOG. Ok it shouldn't be on CD1, that's madness! But I think it should be on one of the extra CDs.
For me the Technique era started with Fine Time. So Touched doesnt really fit it.
By the time Technique arrived, we (the world and NO) had moved into the House and Balearic era. Touched sounds like 80s dance-rock, and although I love it, it started to sound very dated very quickly. I think Touched also ended up on some version of the Substance VHS tape (Discogs has gone glitchy RN, so I can't check).

I don't think you should have to buy a 12" re-release in order to get the track. It was released the same year as Substance and it's a better track than some of the proposed remixes and dubs; get it in there.
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
50poundnote  
#205 Posted : 08 August 2020 09:01:01(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
As for TBTHOG. Ok it shouldn't be on CD1, that's madness! But I think it should be on one of the extra CDs.


It is on the Substance VHS, but I don't feel it belongs with Substance. It should stay with the Salvation tracks, wherever they end up (Brotherhood? Technique?) The film soundtrack came out in May '87, so that would lean toward Brotherhood, but the single came out after Substance (Wikipedia says June '87, but that's wrong. True Faith is FAC 183, TBTHOG is FAC 193, and I didn't see it for sale until December '87), so that would lean toward Technique.

Isn't it lovely to have this much material to debate?
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
50poundnote  
#206 Posted : 08 August 2020 09:03:33(UTC)
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Actually, I've changed my mind. Substance should include a DVD of all the videos remastered, to mirror the VHS, so roll TBTHOG and Blue Monday 1988 in with it. There'll be tons of mixes and live material for Technique.
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Rorschach on 08/08/2020(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
The Shadow  
#207 Posted : 08 August 2020 11:39:03(UTC)
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For the lowlife box set can we please have the 17 minute version of Elegia on vinyl please Mr Johnny James?

The only version on vinyl is a bootleg so would be nice to have on 12”. We already have it on cd with the retro 5th disc.

Seems to be 4 X 12” per box set And for lowlife I can only think of the perfect kiss, Subculture and Shellshock ( the other 86 releases I presume would be on brotherhood box set) so the Elegia one would make it a nice round 4 x 12”

For me the substance box set is the one I’m least interested in. I already have the limited factory employees one and the normal one. On top of that I’m buying all the remastered 12” again and I have all the originals so I’m not sure what a box set of substance would be for as it is essentially just the A and B sides of the singles.
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
The Shadow  
#208 Posted : 08 August 2020 11:56:13(UTC)
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What I forgot to say is how much I’m looking forward to the PC&L box set, it looks wonderful, a proper way to present one of the worlds greatest albums.
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
Jcp7  
#209 Posted : 08 August 2020 13:09:00(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: The Shadow Go to Quoted Post
so I’m not sure what a box set of substance would be for as it is essentially just the A and B sides of the singles.


The Substance CD needs to be remastered.
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
perspexorange  
#210 Posted : 08 August 2020 13:45:15(UTC)
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I just love the fact that there is an intention to release boxes for all LPs.

Just imagine how much great stuff will be unearthed.

Just imagine how cool all those beautiful boxes will look on your shelf.

Many thanks to all involved for the love and attention these sets are getting.

A project that matches the stature of the band.

Edited by user 08 August 2020 13:46:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Mike C. on 09/08/2020(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
The Shadow  
#211 Posted : 08 August 2020 14:40:41(UTC)
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I agree the box set thing is wonderful, it’s just substance Box set interests me the least. It’s a compilation so there can’t be any unreleased stuff or different versions as that will be covered on the other box sets. Don’t get mevwrong I lovecsubstance it’s an Incredibly important album in my liffe, just not sure what a box set will add. But I admit will look great with all the others! Smile
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#212 Posted : 08 August 2020 15:15:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: The Shadow Go to Quoted Post
For the lowlife box set can we please have the 17 minute version of Elegia on vinyl please Mr Johnny James?

The only version on vinyl is a bootleg so would be nice to have on 12”. We already have it on cd with the retro 5th disc.

Seems to be 4 X 12” per box set And for lowlife I can only think of the perfect kiss, Subculture and Shellshock ( the other 86 releases I presume would be on brotherhood box set) so the Elegia one would make it a nice round 4 x 12"

This is a nice idea

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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
Fotz  
#213 Posted : 09 August 2020 01:52:28(UTC)
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I guess i'm in a minority but i've never been massively fussed about Substance.Wait, hear me out! No, what i mean is, when it was released it was all songs i'd been listening to for the previous few years anyway (with the exception of True Faith obviously) .At that point in time i would have preferred more new songs though we did get TF and 1963 and then TBTHOG.To me, Substance was more for people who were only vaguely aware of the band through Blue Monday and maybe one or two others.It was greatest hits for new fans to get into the band.And that was perfectly fine.All great songs of course but i'm always more hungry for new stuff.Says the man who will soon be spending out £135 on and old album PCL box set and 4 single re-releases haha!

But maybe a remastered Substance will get me listening to the album again instead of sticking on the old 12" singles.

Edited by user 09 August 2020 01:54:05(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
perspexorange  
#214 Posted : 09 August 2020 03:19:47(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
To me, Substance was more for people who were only vaguely aware of the band through Blue Monday and maybe one or two others.It was greatest hits for new fans to get into the band.


That was me!
I loved it and it was the first LP I heard by the band. It's a magnificent introduction to the band.
I'm going to show a little bias here, but surely this is one of the greatest ever compilations by a band. Also, having 17 out of the 20 tracks being exclusive to the compilation, kind of makes it 'almost' a studio LP in itself.
It really is excellent.

That being said, although I'm obviously interested in a Substance re-release, I'm far more excited by the studio LP boxes.
For that reason, I'd prefer that it was released after the studio sets are done (especially considering that, if they do it after 'Brotherhood', it'll only further delay me getting my grubby little hands on a 'Technique' set).
Alternatively, maybe if it isn't in the same style as the 'Definitive' editions, it could be released in tandem with the sets, as a 'stand alone' type release (i.e. not delaying the releases of the sets).

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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
Rorschach  
#215 Posted : 09 August 2020 04:29:58(UTC)
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And me. I bought the double cassette from Spin Inn on Eccles precinct and played it in my car for what seemed like forever. My 1st Neworder purchase and a beloved item.
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
GotBlueEyes  
#216 Posted : 09 August 2020 07:44:51(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
To me, Substance was more for people who were only vaguely aware of the band through Blue Monday and maybe one or two others.It was greatest hits for new fans to get into the band.



Not sure I fully agree with that (although maybe was the case for some people) - but let's not forget that a large chunk of New Order singles up that point weren't ever included on albums, so to me as a New Order fan who either couldn't find or couldn't afford all the singles it was a great and affordable way to finally fill the holes in my collection. At the time it didn't feel like a normal "greatest hits" - it felt like giving all these great standalone singles a home

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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
50poundnote  
#217 Posted : 09 August 2020 07:51:24(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: The Shadow Go to Quoted Post
It’s a compilation so there can’t be any unreleased stuff or different versions as that will be covered on the other box sets.


Substance needs to be remastered. For North America, it was THE gateway album to New Order, and none of the remastered 12" singles they're releasing are seeing a digital physical release, i.e. on CD, not just available to stream and download.
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Mike C. on 09/08/2020(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
50poundnote  
#218 Posted : 09 August 2020 07:55:30(UTC)
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And it makes absolutely no sense to NOT release it in chronological order with the other sets. Not after, not in tandem. It was the springboard to Technique being as successful as it was.
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
tapebias  
#219 Posted : 09 August 2020 08:23:15(UTC)
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I still think the box sets are far too expensive and the video stuff is 'bundled' to justify the price. Since I'm not interested in the videos is there a possibility of an Aldi/Lidl version with audio only, no videos, t-shirts, books etc or am I missing the point that it's a collectors item.

Wire did great deluxe versions of their first 3 LPs in 7" sized hardback book covers for £30. £100+ is a joke. I'd want Bernard's PCL lab coat included at that price.

Substance: was this not done just for Wilson to play on his car's new CD player.
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
Debaser  
#220 Posted : 09 August 2020 08:31:07(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GotBlueEyes Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
To me, Substance was more for people who were only vaguely aware of the band through Blue Monday and maybe one or two others.It was greatest hits for new fans to get into the band.



Not sure I fully agree with that (although maybe was the case for some people) - but let's not forget that a large chunk of New Order singles up that point weren't ever included on albums, so to me as a New Order fan who either couldn't find or couldn't afford all the singles it was a great and affordable way to finally fill the holes in my collection. At the time it didn't feel like a normal "greatest hits" - it felt like giving all these great standalone singles a home



Yes i owned three NO studio albums by the time Substance came out. If you told me then that I was only vaguely aware of NO I would have pulled a teenage strop!

But 12"s were expensive. I could buy an album for just over the price of two 12"s, so albums were what I bought.
I remember hearing about Substance a few weeks before its release and getting v excited. I already considered myself a NO fan and couldn't wait to fill the holes in my NO singles collection.
I suspect Mr Fotzepolitic, you may be in the minority of people (who call themselves fans today) who had all the singles by 1987. You were just too hip for Substance!

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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
perspexorange  
#221 Posted : 09 August 2020 08:32:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
And it makes absolutely no sense to NOT release it in chronological order with the other sets. Not after, not in tandem. It was the springboard to Technique being as successful as it was.


Nobody's saying that that isn't important. But it isn't a studio LP.
If this project is specifically looking at studio LPs, a case could be argued that it shouldn't be included as a 'Definitive Edition'.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this (I obviously want as many of these sets, and the additional tracks that come with them, as we can get), but would the LP really necessitate the full-to-bursting 'Definitive' package?:

Anything that would normally be covered in the included book will probably have been covered in previous books.
Live video material from 1987 could very easily have been covered in the Brotherhood era set.
The 12"s have, themselves, already been released (albeit not in a digital physical release, granted)
Etc.

I'm also not saying that it shouldn't be remastered and released (it certainly looks like that's in the plan anyway).

I'm just saying that it should be remastered and released, but it doesn't necessarily have to follow the 'Definitive Edition' release style and schedule.
It could just be a 'bare bones' release (like the recent 'Singles' re-release), or it could be a more expanded version as we've speculated above. I'm obviously hoping for the latter (at the very least).

I'd love a 'Definitive Substance', but I'm keeping an open mind. It wouldn't upset me greatly if we didn't get one, as long as it gets some form of release.

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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
Fotz  
#222 Posted : 09 August 2020 10:23:19(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post

I suspect Mr Fotzepolitic, you may be in the minority of people (who call themselves fans today) who had all the singles by 1987. You were just too hip for Substance!




Oh.i did feel wary that i'd get a response like this.Nothing to do with being hip.Maybe it's to do with the year i was born which meant i was 15/16 in 1983/84.I'd first heard PCL in late 1983 and the next 3 or 4 months after i bought every NO & JD album and 12" i could find in my local record shops.So by spring 1984 i had every New Order and Joy Division 12" and album and absolutely loved hearing those songs for the first time and played them repeatedly over the following 2 or 3 year before Substance came out in August 1987.It's like i'm being made to feel guilty for buying up all the stuff in 1983/84 , 3 years before Substance came out.

In another life i would have loved to have never heard any of the songs before i bought Substance.In a way i feel i missed out . i mean how mindblowing it would have been to hear all the songs for the first time upon buying Substance.So in a way, all you lot that discovered the songs when you bought Substance had it the best way.
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Jcp7  
#223 Posted : 09 August 2020 10:32:22(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: tapebias Go to Quoted Post
I still think the box sets are far too expensive and the video stuff is 'bundled' to justify the price. Since I'm not interested in the videos is there a possibility of an Aldi/Lidl version with audio only, no videos, t-shirts, books etc or am I missing the point that it's a collectors item.
.



Movement CDs are available lossless on Qobuz. It will probably be the same for PCL.
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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
GotBlueEyes  
#224 Posted : 10 August 2020 00:54:45(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post

In another life i would have loved to have never heard any of the songs before i bought Substance.In a way i feel i missed out . i mean how mindblowing it would have been to hear all the songs for the first time upon buying Substance.So in a way, all you lot that discovered the songs when you bought Substance had it the best way.


It was indeed mind-blowing to me that I was able to get all those missing singles from my collection together in one place. I bought the double cassette box version as it had the most tracks. I thought I had it all. Listened to it so much that the b-sides cassette snapped. Took it back to WH Smith and they swapped it for the white linen box edition!

It blew my mind a second time when I realised years later via the guy who blogged all the singles, that quite a lot of the Substance tracks were edits or alternate versions, so there was still more to hear/collect

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ROCKET MICK on 12/08/2020(UTC)
50poundnote  
#225 Posted : 10 August 2020 06:49:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
In another life i would have loved to have never heard any of the songs before i bought Substance.


I had seen Confusion once or twice on MTV in 1983.
I'd heard The Perfect Kiss once in a record shop in 1985.
I saw Bizarre Love Triangle on MTV, and went out and bought Brotherhood - but the cassette version, minus State of The Nation.

So the first time I played Substance was my first time hearing Ceremony, Everything's Gone Green, Temptation, Blue Monday, Thieves Like Us, Subculture, Shellshock, State Of The Nation, the remix of Bizarre Love Triangle, and True Faith. And I'd picked up the 2-cassette Factory import with the slipcase, so I had all the B-sides to explore. It's not exaggerating to say that album changed my life.

Edited by user 10 August 2020 07:49:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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