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perspexorange  
#26 Posted : 05 January 2021 05:19:22(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
You're out of my League.


Yeah. My "geekdom" is not something I'm proud of. :-(

But it keeps me out of mischief. Mostly.

Edited by user 05 January 2021 06:30:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#27 Posted : 05 January 2021 08:28:24(UTC)
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Don't worry. Some people molest mongeese.
Did you know... Of you put all the Spice Girls CDs in a long line on the ground - you get really bored.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#28 Posted : 05 January 2021 09:06:40(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
I have to say, I really liked the 2002 remixes. They were mostly great!

I've never been 100% sure on whether Bernard recorded any new vocals for the song around the time. There were mixes that used the original '83 vocals, mixes that used the '87 vocals and ones that combined the two. But I also think that there were some some mixes where it sounded like there were even newer vocals on them. I can't remember which ones now.

If anyone knows...


Many of the 2002 mixes used Bernard's original 1983 vocals. On the CD single and Retro edits of the Koma & Bones mix, newly recorded vocals were added by Bernard. The Koma & Bones remix included in the 12 x 12 set of twelve inch remixes released to support the 'Singles' compilation also added the new vocal.

On the CD single, all but the 'Asto Dazed' edit featured the newly recorded vocals. All the pre-release promo 12 inches features the original vocals, but the Larry Tees and Outputs mixes had the new vocals added on the final 12 inch releases.

All the different releases and versions and which vocal they feature are listed at https://www.niagara.edu/neworder/singles/confusion2k2.html

The 1987 vocal was not used in any of the 2002 remixes. In fact, the 1987 'Confusion' is in a completely different key (A flat minor, as opposed to the original's D minor).

I've read a few times Barney didn't like his original 1983 vocal - apparently he had a cold the day they were recorded - so guess he intervened and provided a new vocal track in time for the official release..? Glad he did too, as his original '83 vocals always were pretty ropey.


Thanks for this clarification.
Actually, I was misremembering (old age, eh?). I've just noticed on one of my spreadsheets that I had logged that new vocals were recorded for these 2002 mixes, but I've also noted a couple of mixes where it was possible that the '87 vocals were used. I think that was what I was remembering. Apologies. That'll teach me to go into something like this half-cocked.

I've used that excellent Niagara resource before and I think I may have used it when I made a note of the various variants for the 2002 release.

As regards the two mixes that I thought used the '87 vocals, these were:

Larry Tee's Electroclash Mix (New & Old Vocals) (from (Whacked Records WACKT002))
Larry Tee's Electroclash Mix Edit (New Vocals) (from (Whacked Records WACKT002CD))

The reason I thought this was the case is that these mixes contain the lines:

"You're hiding from feelings, you're searching for more"

"Searching" was only used in the '87 version, I think. In the original version it was "You're hiding from feelings, you're caring for more") and this was also repeated in the 2002 version (see the Outputs Nu-Rocktro Version (New Vocals) mix).

However, I've just had another relisten.
In the '87 version, it's "You're hiding from feelings, searching for more"
In the 2002 "new vocal" versions, it's "You're hiding from feelings, you're searching for more"

Listening back now, the 1987 vocal delivery of that line is nowhere near the delivery of the 2002 (new) vocal line. They're quite different and I don't know how I didn't spot this earlier.

So, I'm guessing that either a) Bernard recorded multiple takes in 2002 with different variations of the lyrics or b) he had previously recorded a version with "you're searching" in it, and the remixer dug out this old vocal take.

To sum up:

Original 1983 version: "You're hiding from feelings, you're caring for more"
Substance 1987 version: "You're hiding from feelings, searching for more"
2002 new vocal line: "You're hiding from feelings, you're searching for more"

Opinions? Anyone know what happened here?

I'd also appreciate opinions on the two Electroclash mixes, also. In my opinion, they both use the old vocals as well as the new vocals, not just the extended version on the 12". Specifically on the chorus ("you just can't believe me"). According to Dennis' site, the Edit only uses the new vocals.

Just as an addendum to this, here is what I have logged on my spreadsheet for 2002 variants (WARNING - Trainspotter territory!):

Koma & Bones Vocal Version (Old Vocals) (08:11) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (1))
Koma & Bones Version (New Vocals) (03:50) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)
Koma & Bones Remix (New Vocals) (08:11) (From '12"x12 New Order Vinyl Campaign' (NSER009))
Koma & Bones Vocal Mix (New Vocals) (06:02) (From 'Retro' box set)
Koma & Bones Dub (07:54) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (1))

Larry Tee's Electroclash Mix (Old & New Vocals) (05:20) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (1))
Larry Tee's Electroclash Mix Edit (Old & New Vocals) (03:44) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)

Outputs Nu-Rocktro Version (Old Vocals) (05:50) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (3))
Outputs Nu-Rocktro Version (New Vocals) (05:54) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (2))
Outputs Nu-Rocktro Version Edit (New Vocals) (03:45) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)

Arthur Baker 2002 Version (Old Vocals) (06:42) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (2))
Arthur Baker 2002 Version Edit (Old Vocals) (06:18) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (2))
Arthur Baker 2002 Version Edit (New Vocals) (03:13) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)
Arthur Baker 2002 Instrumental (05:47) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (2))

Asto Dazed Mix (Old Vocals) (07:31) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (2))
Asto Dazed Mix Edit (Old Vocals) (04:23) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)

Acapella & Parts (Old Vocals) (06:05) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (1))
Acapella (Old Vocals) (01:47) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (1))

Any errors/omissions?






Could you please be more specific?


But seriously, Rocket Mick needs to thank you for that useful post.
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negative1 on 05/01/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#29 Posted : 05 January 2021 10:49:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Could you please be more specific?


HaHa. Yeah. I do tend to get carried away.

To be fair, most of what I wrote was just copied and pasted from spreadsheets I've got sitting on my computer.
Of course, I guess I put in the leg-work at some point in the past; just not today.

I did warn people that I was straying into 'trainspotter territory'. Wink

I'll try to keep it 'light' for the rest of my posts this week. Big Grin
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Like No Other on 05/01/2021(UTC), Andy on 05/01/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
Fractured  
#30 Posted : 05 January 2021 23:49:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

Just as an addendum to this, here is what I have logged on my spreadsheet for 2002 variants (WARNING - Trainspotter territory!):

Koma & Bones Vocal Version (Old Vocals) (08:11) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (1))
Koma & Bones Version (New Vocals) (03:50) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)
Koma & Bones Remix (New Vocals) (08:11) (From '12"x12 New Order Vinyl Campaign' (NSER009))
Koma & Bones Vocal Mix (New Vocals) (06:02) (From 'Retro' box set)
Koma & Bones Dub (07:54) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (1))

Larry Tee's Electroclash Mix (Old & New Vocals) (05:20) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (1))
Larry Tee's Electroclash Mix Edit (Old & New Vocals) (03:44) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)

Outputs Nu-Rocktro Version (Old Vocals) (05:50) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (3))
Outputs Nu-Rocktro Version (New Vocals) (05:54) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (2))
Outputs Nu-Rocktro Version Edit (New Vocals) (03:45) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)

Arthur Baker 2002 Version (Old Vocals) (06:42) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (2))
Arthur Baker 2002 Version Edit (Old Vocals) (06:18) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (2))
Arthur Baker 2002 Version Edit (New Vocals) (03:13) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)
Arthur Baker 2002 Instrumental (05:47) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (2))

Asto Dazed Mix (Old Vocals) (07:31) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (2))
Asto Dazed Mix Edit (Old Vocals) (04:23) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)

Acapella & Parts (Old Vocals) (06:05) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (1))
Acapella (Old Vocals) (01:47) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (1))

Any errors/omissions?



Wonderful work organizing the various versions! It's a pity the acapellas didn't make it onto a CD.

It's hard to believe this was almost 20 years ago ...

Edited by user 06 January 2021 08:08:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#31 Posted : 06 January 2021 07:40:12(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
I have to say, I really liked the 2002 remixes. They were mostly great!

I've never been 100% sure on whether Bernard recorded any new vocals for the song around the time. There were mixes that used the original '83 vocals, mixes that used the '87 vocals and ones that combined the two. But I also think that there were some some mixes where it sounded like there were even newer vocals on them. I can't remember which ones now.

If anyone knows...


Many of the 2002 mixes used Bernard's original 1983 vocals. On the CD single and Retro edits of the Koma & Bones mix, newly recorded vocals were added by Bernard. The Koma & Bones remix included in the 12 x 12 set of twelve inch remixes released to support the 'Singles' compilation also added the new vocal.

On the CD single, all but the 'Asto Dazed' edit featured the newly recorded vocals. All the pre-release promo 12 inches features the original vocals, but the Larry Tees and Outputs mixes had the new vocals added on the final 12 inch releases.

All the different releases and versions and which vocal they feature are listed at https://www.niagara.edu/neworder/singles/confusion2k2.html

The 1987 vocal was not used in any of the 2002 remixes. In fact, the 1987 'Confusion' is in a completely different key (A flat minor, as opposed to the original's D minor).

I've read a few times Barney didn't like his original 1983 vocal - apparently he had a cold the day they were recorded - so guess he intervened and provided a new vocal track in time for the official release..? Glad he did too, as his original '83 vocals always were pretty ropey.


Thanks for this clarification.
Actually, I was misremembering (old age, eh?). I've just noticed on one of my spreadsheets that I had logged that new vocals were recorded for these 2002 mixes, but I've also noted a couple of mixes where it was possible that the '87 vocals were used. I think that was what I was remembering. Apologies. That'll teach me to go into something like this half-cocked.

I've used that excellent Niagara resource before and I think I may have used it when I made a note of the various variants for the 2002 release.

As regards the two mixes that I thought used the '87 vocals, these were:

Larry Tee's Electroclash Mix (New & Old Vocals) (from (Whacked Records WACKT002))
Larry Tee's Electroclash Mix Edit (New Vocals) (from (Whacked Records WACKT002CD))

The reason I thought this was the case is that these mixes contain the lines:

"You're hiding from feelings, you're searching for more"

"Searching" was only used in the '87 version, I think. In the original version it was "You're hiding from feelings, you're caring for more") and this was also repeated in the 2002 version (see the Outputs Nu-Rocktro Version (New Vocals) mix).

However, I've just had another relisten.
In the '87 version, it's "You're hiding from feelings, searching for more"
In the 2002 "new vocal" versions, it's "You're hiding from feelings, you're searching for more"

Listening back now, the 1987 vocal delivery of that line is nowhere near the delivery of the 2002 (new) vocal line. They're quite different and I don't know how I didn't spot this earlier.

So, I'm guessing that either a) Bernard recorded multiple takes in 2002 with different variations of the lyrics or b) he had previously recorded a version with "you're searching" in it, and the remixer dug out this old vocal take.

To sum up:

Original 1983 version: "You're hiding from feelings, you're caring for more"
Substance 1987 version: "You're hiding from feelings, searching for more"
2002 new vocal line: "You're hiding from feelings, you're searching for more"

Opinions? Anyone know what happened here?

I'd also appreciate opinions on the two Electroclash mixes, also. In my opinion, they both use the old vocals as well as the new vocals, not just the extended version on the 12". Specifically on the chorus ("you just can't believe me"). According to Dennis' site, the Edit only uses the new vocals.

Just as an addendum to this, here is what I have logged on my spreadsheet for 2002 variants (WARNING - Trainspotter territory!):

Koma & Bones Vocal Version (Old Vocals) (08:11) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (1))
Koma & Bones Version (New Vocals) (03:50) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)
Koma & Bones Remix (New Vocals) (08:11) (From '12"x12 New Order Vinyl Campaign' (NSER009))
Koma & Bones Vocal Mix (New Vocals) (06:02) (From 'Retro' box set)
Koma & Bones Dub (07:54) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (1))

Larry Tee's Electroclash Mix (Old & New Vocals) (05:20) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (1))
Larry Tee's Electroclash Mix Edit (Old & New Vocals) (03:44) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)

Outputs Nu-Rocktro Version (Old Vocals) (05:50) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (3))
Outputs Nu-Rocktro Version (New Vocals) (05:54) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (2))
Outputs Nu-Rocktro Version Edit (New Vocals) (03:45) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)

Arthur Baker 2002 Version (Old Vocals) (06:42) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (2))
Arthur Baker 2002 Version Edit (Old Vocals) (06:18) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (2))
Arthur Baker 2002 Version Edit (New Vocals) (03:13) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)
Arthur Baker 2002 Instrumental (05:47) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (2))

Asto Dazed Mix (Old Vocals) (07:31) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (2))
Asto Dazed Mix Edit (Old Vocals) (04:23) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' CDS)

Acapella & Parts (Old Vocals) (06:05) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' 12" (1))
Acapella (Old Vocals) (01:47) (From 'Confusion Remixes '02' Promo 12" (1))

Any errors/omissions?





yeah, that matches up with my list. i think i'm missing a few from my list.

later
-1

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ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
Linus Solanki  
#32 Posted : 06 January 2021 19:10:55(UTC)
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https://www.nme.com/news/music/new-order-133-1384295

I was just reading the NME review of Get Ready at a playback event for the record and it included Player in the league and Sabotage at the listening party but the songs were not on the album but B sides.
I promise to make you so alive that the fall of dust on furniture will deafen you. Nina Cassian
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ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC), Like No Other on 07/01/2021(UTC)
Fractured  
#33 Posted : 06 January 2021 21:30:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Linus Solanki Go to Quoted Post
https://www.nme.com/news/music/new-order-133-1384295

I was just reading the NME review of Get Ready at a playback event for the record and it included Player in the league and Sabotage at the listening party but the songs were not on the album but B sides.


You have to wonder if the comment that "Player" is "The only embarrassing moment on the record" led to its removal. It is a great tune, but it doesn't really have a place in the context of the album, which in its final state flows perfectly from start to finish. Although I still don't understand why they included that weird, dissonant background noise in the middle of "Rock the Shack" ...
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ROCKET MICK on 07/01/2021(UTC)
50poundnote  
#34 Posted : 07 January 2021 08:06:45(UTC)
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A friend who worked at Billboard gave me his pre-release copy watermarked with his name. I was disappointed when the album was finally released and Player in The League wasn't on it, and Rock The Shack was.

Get Ready is my least favorite of their studio albums.
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ROCKET MICK on 08/01/2021(UTC)
NotAMod  
#35 Posted : 07 January 2021 14:20:44(UTC)
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Player (or "Field" as it was known on some promos) was slightly hamstrung by the "topical" lyrics about football. On the other hand, the tune itself is a brilliant and blends rock/synths effortlessly. Sabotage definitely should have made it onto the final album running order, in my opinion. Musically light years ahead of Rock The Shack and a little bit downtempo/adventurous with this gorgeous acoustic guitar and synth drone towards the end. One of the most interesting tracks from the Get Ready sessions and showed the experimental side of that era as opposed to the loud guitars we normally associate. It's just a crying shame it was relegated to the 60 MPH single and as a result not many people got to hear it.

There is a great album somewhere in Get Ready but I don't think the finalised running order nailed it. Also having had the premix versions for quite a while before the release I remember being disappointed at the missing tracks and how some of the songs had the life edited out of them slightly. The curse of Pro Tools, I guess. Close Range in particular didn't come out of it that well but they reordered the structure slightly when playing live and for the "In Session" version. Turn My Way should have been done without Corgan and with the dreamy elements of the mix turned up, Bernard's vocal was good enough by itself really.

If they continue the box-sets beyond the Factory years I wonder if Get Ready will receive that treatment? Now there's a thought.
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ROCKET MICK on 08/01/2021(UTC)
daftpunk  
#36 Posted : 07 January 2021 18:56:01(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NotAMod Go to Quoted Post
Player (or "Field" as it was known on some promos) was slightly hamstrung by the "topical" lyrics about football. On the other hand, the tune itself is a brilliant and blends rock/synths effortlessly. Sabotage definitely should have made it onto the final album running order, in my opinion. Musically light years ahead of Rock The Shack and a little bit downtempo/adventurous with this gorgeous acoustic guitar and synth drone towards the end. One of the most interesting tracks from the Get Ready sessions and showed the experimental side of that era as opposed to the loud guitars we normally associate. It's just a crying shame it was relegated to the 60 MPH single and as a result not many people got to hear it.

There is a great album somewhere in Get Ready but I don't think the finalised running order nailed it. Also having had the premix versions for quite a while before the release I remember being disappointed at the missing tracks and how some of the songs had the life edited out of them slightly. The curse of Pro Tools, I guess. Close Range in particular didn't come out of it that well but they reordered the structure slightly when playing live and for the "In Session" version. Turn My Way should have been done without Corgan and with the dreamy elements of the mix turned up, Bernard's vocal was good enough by itself really.

If they continue the box-sets beyond the Factory years I wonder if Get Ready will receive that treatment? Now there's a thought.


Speaking of premixes, has anyone here actually every listened to the (urban legend-ish) premix of Republic? Or WFTSC for that matter?

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ROCKET MICK on 08/01/2021(UTC)
Johnny James  
#37 Posted : 07 January 2021 22:58:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: daftpunk Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NotAMod Go to Quoted Post
Player (or "Field" as it was known on some promos) was slightly hamstrung by the "topical" lyrics about football. On the other hand, the tune itself is a brilliant and blends rock/synths effortlessly. Sabotage definitely should have made it onto the final album running order, in my opinion. Musically light years ahead of Rock The Shack and a little bit downtempo/adventurous with this gorgeous acoustic guitar and synth drone towards the end. One of the most interesting tracks from the Get Ready sessions and showed the experimental side of that era as opposed to the loud guitars we normally associate. It's just a crying shame it was relegated to the 60 MPH single and as a result not many people got to hear it.

There is a great album somewhere in Get Ready but I don't think the finalised running order nailed it. Also having had the premix versions for quite a while before the release I remember being disappointed at the missing tracks and how some of the songs had the life edited out of them slightly. The curse of Pro Tools, I guess. Close Range in particular didn't come out of it that well but they reordered the structure slightly when playing live and for the "In Session" version. Turn My Way should have been done without Corgan and with the dreamy elements of the mix turned up, Bernard's vocal was good enough by itself really.

If they continue the box-sets beyond the Factory years I wonder if Get Ready will receive that treatment? Now there's a thought.


Speaking of premixes, has anyone here actually every listened to the (urban legend-ish) premix of Republic? Or WFTSC for that matter?



You mean the FACT300 Republic one? There's a lot of myth involved there. Having had access to various archives the nearest to that I've found is a cassette with all the band demos compiled (at least 10 from memory). It wasn't labelled as FACT300, just had handwritten track names on a standard cassette inlay. Most are very short pieces/ideas, the only one that's quite advanced is Regret (and there are two versions of it, each quite different).

Related to this (as I looked to it for FACT300 info), what happened to factoryrecords.info discography? Is that preserved anywhere under another URL? It seems to have gone.

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ROCKET MICK on 08/01/2021(UTC), daftpunk on 08/01/2021(UTC), NotAMod on 11/01/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#38 Posted : 08 January 2021 00:14:23(UTC)
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Last year, a friend on Twitter suggested we redo the tracklistings to their post Factory LP's in that early era format: 8 tracks, just like Movement/PCL/Low-Life. I don't remember b-sides and non-LP singles being permitted (the idea was to trim the fat), but it brought up some interesting running orders. I recall someone ending Get Ready with Vicious Streak, which I thought was bizarre. Also, I struggled improving Republic, even after lopping off the requisite tracks. But I was insistent on not having Regret as the lead track (have always disliked the "It's all downhill from here" vibe).
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ROCKET MICK on 08/01/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#39 Posted : 08 January 2021 03:03:16(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
You're out of my League.


Yeah. My "geekdom" is not something I'm proud of. :-(

But it keeps me out of mischief. Mostly.


Ringo Starr's Postcards From Paradise is full of references to Beatle lyrics. If you spot them all - you need a fucking hobby.
I remember that NME preview. Player / Field has nice instrumentation, particularly towards the end, but some mind-blowingly awful lyrics. Republic had strong lyrics and weak music - this period was the opposite.
Republic is also a good example of how important ordering is. Like my mother, it's a bumpy ride, but at least it starts and ends well. Imagine if they kicked off with Liar and climaxed on the Chemical fade-out. Actually, don't.
As with RTP and Sirens, there's probably a tough ten-tracker in there struggling to get out, but I can't be arsed.

Edited by user 08 January 2021 03:20:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 08/01/2021(UTC)
daftpunk  
#40 Posted : 08 January 2021 15:00:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: daftpunk Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NotAMod Go to Quoted Post
Player (or "Field" as it was known on some promos) was slightly hamstrung by the "topical" lyrics about football. On the other hand, the tune itself is a brilliant and blends rock/synths effortlessly. Sabotage definitely should have made it onto the final album running order, in my opinion. Musically light years ahead of Rock The Shack and a little bit downtempo/adventurous with this gorgeous acoustic guitar and synth drone towards the end. One of the most interesting tracks from the Get Ready sessions and showed the experimental side of that era as opposed to the loud guitars we normally associate. It's just a crying shame it was relegated to the 60 MPH single and as a result not many people got to hear it.

There is a great album somewhere in Get Ready but I don't think the finalised running order nailed it. Also having had the premix versions for quite a while before the release I remember being disappointed at the missing tracks and how some of the songs had the life edited out of them slightly. The curse of Pro Tools, I guess. Close Range in particular didn't come out of it that well but they reordered the structure slightly when playing live and for the "In Session" version. Turn My Way should have been done without Corgan and with the dreamy elements of the mix turned up, Bernard's vocal was good enough by itself really.

If they continue the box-sets beyond the Factory years I wonder if Get Ready will receive that treatment? Now there's a thought.


Speaking of premixes, has anyone here actually every listened to the (urban legend-ish) premix of Republic? Or WFTSC for that matter?



You mean the FACT300 Republic one? There's a lot of myth involved there. Having had access to various archives the nearest to that I've found is a cassette with all the band demos compiled (at least 10 from memory). It wasn't labelled as FACT300, just had handwritten track names on a standard cassette inlay. Most are very short pieces/ideas, the only one that's quite advanced is Regret (and there are two versions of it, each quite different).

Related to this (as I looked to it for FACT300 info), what happened to factoryrecords.info discography? Is that preserved anywhere under another URL? It seems to have gone.




Yes, that's exactly the one - FACT300! Given that I've never seen anything concrete about it show up after 15+ years of being on here (or eBay for that matter), I always doubted its existence. Perhaps the myth came about from some people's hopes that there just maybe, might be a more guitar-ish version of the tracks somewhere, although I'm in the minority who think it's an absolutely fantastic album as-is, one of my favorites for sure.

Hopefully some or all of those demos on the cassette you found will find their way on a bonus CD someday!! =D (that and WFTSC ones)
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ROCKET MICK on 12/01/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#41 Posted : 09 January 2021 00:52:03(UTC)
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Yeah, I got the impression from interviews Republic started off as the usual guitar / synth hybrid with Regret, Special and Everywank Everybare, but then Bernard and Hague took over. I can't offer any insider knowledge, but Hooky and Steve comments gave me the idea.
PS https://factoryrecords.o...0-new-order-untitled.php
It's also mentioned on Wikipedia, so it must be true.
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daftpunk on 09/01/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 12/01/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#42 Posted : 11 January 2021 02:52:09(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
Money.


Bingo. No one has milked his New Order association more than Arthur Baker...except Peter Hook.


I'd say Hooky milks JD even more.
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ROCKET MICK on 12/01/2021(UTC)
Fractured  
#43 Posted : 12 January 2021 23:12:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post

You mean the FACT300 Republic one? There's a lot of myth involved there. Having had access to various archives the nearest to that I've found is a cassette with all the band demos compiled (at least 10 from memory). It wasn't labelled as FACT300, just had handwritten track names on a standard cassette inlay. Most are very short pieces/ideas, the only one that's quite advanced is Regret (and there are two versions of it, each quite different).

Related to this (as I looked to it for FACT300 info), what happened to factoryrecords.info discography? Is that preserved anywhere under another URL? It seems to have gone.



The only reference I've seen online regarding FACT300 is from https://factoryrecords.o...0-new-order-untitled.php

"[Contents TBD] About 5 of these were made as official Factory pre-mix listening cassettes with 'FACT 300' on them.
Notes: They contained mostly instrumental versions of the songs that ended up on the proper release of 'Republic' on London Records."

Saville actually turned the track listing (Showing titles like "Seagull," "Shedded," and "Ick One") into a piece of art called "Working Title": https://artlogic-res.clo...e-working-title-2004.jpg ... would love to see that reproduced in the Republic box set's book.

However I believe the track listing may show one or two more songs than were on the demo tape?

P.S. Speaking of unreleased Factory goodies, I'm still hoping for this: https://factoryrecords.o...der-here-are-old-men.php

Edited by user 12 January 2021 23:13:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Johnny James  
#44 Posted : 12 January 2021 23:57:05(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fractured Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post

You mean the FACT300 Republic one? There's a lot of myth involved there. Having had access to various archives the nearest to that I've found is a cassette with all the band demos compiled (at least 10 from memory). It wasn't labelled as FACT300, just had handwritten track names on a standard cassette inlay. Most are very short pieces/ideas, the only one that's quite advanced is Regret (and there are two versions of it, each quite different).

Related to this (as I looked to it for FACT300 info), what happened to factoryrecords.info discography? Is that preserved anywhere under another URL? It seems to have gone.



The only reference I've seen online regarding FACT300 is from https://factoryrecords.o...0-new-order-untitled.php

"[Contents TBD] About 5 of these were made as official Factory pre-mix listening cassettes with 'FACT 300' on them.
Notes: They contained mostly instrumental versions of the songs that ended up on the proper release of 'Republic' on London Records."

Saville actually turned the track listing (Showing titles like "Seagull," "Shedded," and "Ick One") into a piece of art called "Working Title": https://artlogic-res.clo...e-working-title-2004.jpg ... would love to see that reproduced in the Republic box set's book.

However I believe the track listing may show one or two more songs than were on the demo tape?

P.S. Speaking of unreleased Factory goodies, I'm still hoping for this: https://factoryrecords.o...der-here-are-old-men.php


Working Title does match the tracklist of that cassette I saw, except for the last two 'White Diamond' and 'Moderation?', which weren't on it.

Any ideas what Here Are The Old Men was supposed to have on it?

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Fractured on 13/01/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#45 Posted : 13 January 2021 00:15:40(UTC)
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I think Here Are... was just a gag at the time of the JD VHS. They're famous for their whacky sense of humour.
I mentioned the cassette link too, and ultimately, who cares? Republic is shit.
perspexorange  
#46 Posted : 13 January 2021 00:57:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post


Working Title does match the tracklist of that cassette I saw, except for the last two 'White Diamond' and 'Moderation?', which weren't on it.



So the tape you’ve seen contained 15 tracks? Colour me intrigued.
11 tracks on ‘Republic’ plus ‘Vicious Circle’. That means that there are three tracks that were demoed that we don’t know about.

I’d never seen that ‘Working Title’ piece before, or heard of any of those names.

I wonder if we can guess which ones tie up to which tracks.

‘Regret’, ‘Spooky One’ and ‘Chemical 1’ seem obvious.
‘Heavy Oboe One’ I’m guessing is ‘Times Change’.
‘Gillian’s 12 String’ might be ‘Everyone Everywhere’ (do any musicians think it sounds like this song contains 12 string guitar?).
The others, I’m drawing a blank on.

Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post


Any ideas what Here Are The Old Men was supposed to have on it?



Based on what ‘HATYM’ was (various live performances), I’m going to guess something similar but featuring New Order rather than Joy Division.
As to which gigs, no idea.

I guess it’s possible it may have included TV performances.
Based on the close FAC number to ‘Substance 1989’ (237 compared to 225) I guess we can eliminate that it, like ‘Substance’ was a compilation of promo videos.



perspexorange  
#47 Posted : 13 January 2021 01:02:32(UTC)
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Based on the little pictures of guitars on the ‘Working Titles’ piece, I guess it’s safe to assume that ’Seagull’ was another guitar based song.
‘Ruined In A Day’ perhaps?

Wonder what the ‘ticks’ mean?
Michael Monkhouse  
#48 Posted : 13 January 2021 06:13:27(UTC)
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As I said, I think HATOM was just a Factory quip. Given that they couldn't organise a day in advance, a decade seems a long shot. They probably didn't even know they'd last that long.
I'd never seen that Savile image and in the words of Mrs Thatcher, fuck me. Your guess is as bad as mine, but maybe...
Regret - duh
Heavy Oboe One - Times Change
Identify - Liar
Backwards - World
Seagull - Ruined in a Day
Shedded - Special
Big Chor DJ - Times Change
Gillian's G String - Everyone Everywhere
Chemical One - duh
Desperate - Young Offender
Shoot to Kill - World
Ick one - Vicious Menstrual cycle (according to Denis Rimmer's review)
Spooky One - duh
16th of 19th - maybe a musical reference like 586, so an instrumental (Avalanche, VC)
Techno - Spooky (check out https://www.mdmarchive.c...ORDER_PRESS_ARTICLE_1993 - 13-track album, with a track listing that includes Techno 2 but not Spooky)
White Diamond - Avalanche
Moderation - Liar

More fun with https://imgur.com/zWAQY0J and https://www.mdmarchive.c...amp;aid=1864&bid=693 - plus https://www.new-order.ne.../facs/workingtitles.html

Edited by user 13 January 2021 06:17:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

perspexorange  
#49 Posted : 13 January 2021 11:04:21(UTC)
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The two 'unmastered' 'WFTSC' LPs have a few working titles too:

'Lordsy' (Who's Joe?)
'Road To Ruin' (Hey Now What You Doing; they should've stuck with the original title, IMO)
'Pop 1' (Morning, Night & Day)
'Minidisc 2' (Dracula's Castle)
'Jet' (Jetstream)
'Fast Synth' (Guilt Is A Useless Emotion)

Edited by user 13 January 2021 11:09:59(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Fractured on 13/01/2021(UTC)
50poundnote  
#50 Posted : 13 January 2021 12:12:23(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
'Pop 1' (Morning, Night & Day)


I've always thought that was a very underrated song. It's one of my favorites on the album.
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