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Mapping the (hopefully!) forthcoming Definitive Editions... Part 1 - PC&L
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography  Originally Posted by: Johnny James Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Originally Posted by: Johnny James The original would have been done with two U-Matics, which was part of the attraction of going digital back then. Now they're regarded as a bit rubbish, quite a few of the tapes don't even play anymore. Johnny, what other New Order releases used U-Matics? You mention it being used for the 'Substance' masters, so was it also used for 'Brotherhood' and related tracks? There are a lot of tapes for Brotherhood, so I'm not sure there was a digital stage. There will have been for the CDs. Vinyl was usually cut from EQ'd analogue production master reels, though what you can't be sure of is were they put through a digital stage first. So it sounds like there were no other U-Matic edits/comps of different takes of dub mixes of tracks like there were with 'The Beach' and 'Thieves Like Us Instrumental' then? There are studio analogue reels of such things. Instrumentals etc.
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James
I think when you revisit old edits it's tempting to try and improve things. The original would have been done with two U-Matics, which was part of the attraction of going digital back then. Now they're regarded as a bit rubbish, quite a few of the tapes don't even play anymore.
I was comparing the original ('Substance') and 2020 digital master versions of 'Thieves Like Us Instrumental' last night, I think I hear another re-created edit in the remaster: the repeating sections from 1:49-1:53 where take 1 (version on 'The Collectors Edition' of PC&L) edits into take 2 (the version on the US 'Shellshock' 12"). On the original version, this section is looped a touch clumsily, sounding out of time once or twice; on the remaster it's perfectly edited to repeat every two beats. Guessing how the band woud've wanted it at the time! Assume this was a similar re-edit using original master tapes, due to lower sound quality (or dodgy performance) of the U-Matic tape? Edited by user 04 October 2023 02:23:16(UTC)
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Rank: Member of the Brotherhood
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Joined: 29/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 450
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Originally Posted by: Johnny James
I think when you revisit old edits it's tempting to try and improve things. The original would have been done with two U-Matics, which was part of the attraction of going digital back then. Now they're regarded as a bit rubbish, quite a few of the tapes don't even play anymore.
I was comparing the original ('Substance') and 2020 digital master of 'Thieves Like Us Instrumental' last night, I think I hear another re-created edit in the remaster: the repeating sections from 1:49-1:53 where take 1 (version on 'The Collectors Edition' of PC&L) edits into take 2 (the version on the US 'Shellshock' 12"). On the original version, this section is looped a touch clumsily, sounding out of time once or twice; on the remaster it's perfectly edited to repeat every two beats. Guessing how the band woud've wanted it at the time! Assume this was a similar re-edit using original master tapes, due to lower sound quality (or dodgy performance) of the U-Matic tape? Yes, a new edit from higher quality sources, we also got it done by Michael Johnson this time too.
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Rank: Member of the Brotherhood
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Originally Posted by: Johnny James
I think when you revisit old edits it's tempting to try and improve things. The original would have been done with two U-Matics, which was part of the attraction of going digital back then. Now they're regarded as a bit rubbish, quite a few of the tapes don't even play anymore.
I was comparing the original ('Substance') and 2020 digital master of 'Thieves Like Us Instrumental' last night, I think I hear another re-created edit in the remaster: the repeating sections from 1:49-1:53 where take 1 (version on 'The Collectors Edition' of PC&L) edits into take 2 (the version on the US 'Shellshock' 12"). On the original version, this section is looped a touch clumsily, sounding out of time once or twice; on the remaster it's perfectly edited to repeat every two beats. Guessing how the band woud've wanted it at the time! Assume this was a similar re-edit using original master tapes, due to lower sound quality (or dodgy performance) of the U-Matic tape? Yes, a new edit from higher quality sources, we also got it done by Michael Johnson this time too. Interesting, and a justifiable re-edit in my opinion, in order to get the better quality audio. If the remastered 7" singles (with A and B sides) ever see the light of day for digital and/or physical reissue, hopefully that clunky glitch in 'Shellshock' after the first "Hold on" can be cleaned up in a similar way - as someone has done here on YouTube: https://youtu.be/yAhwF0fkmx8?si=NAq317NETKbgYGXE. Although I'm guessing that was some sort of physical tape edit to create the original 7" version, so there will already be a higher quality master tape in existence? If you guys were ever to revisit the old 7" edits of the B-sides, would that throw up a whole new challenge with U-Matic edits needing to be reproduced? Edited by user 04 October 2023 04:55:48(UTC)
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