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Andy  
#151 Posted : 16 August 2022 08:31:42(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
I can't really see Substance getting the box set treatment. Only if physical media sales somehow tick up could I see how even a remastered/deluxe edition would be worthwhile. There wouldn't be as much of a production expense but I think the Definitive Editions are making it redundant.


How can you say that when the remastered 12" single tracks have not been included in the boxes, only released concurrently on new 12" pressings?

Substance needs a definitive box set.


Was thinking between the Collector's Editions, Definitive Editions and Recycle (wink, wink) that everything that would end up on a Substance set will have been covered.

I'm not saying I wouldn't buy a freshly remastered Substance box, just that commercially it might not be worthwhile to bring to market.

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Andy  
#152 Posted : 16 August 2022 08:40:40(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
I can't really see Substance getting the box set treatment. Only if physical media sales somehow tick up could I see how even a remastered/deluxe edition would be worthwhile. There wouldn't be as much of a production expense but I think the Definitive Editions are making it redundant.


How can you say that when the remastered 12" single tracks have not been included in the boxes, only released concurrently on new 12" pressings?

Substance needs a definitive box set.

It's been said before, but I think it essentially needs a remastered set (perhaps at a lower price point than the main definitive editions) including:

- Double vinyl mirroring the original 1987 Substance LP

- 3 x CDs with the same 28 tracks as the original double cassette from 1987. Only difference should be the full 12" version of 'The Perfect Kiss' on the CD, as the truncated one added nothing to the original release, and the full version was always on the vinyl edition even in 1987. All other re-recordings (Temptation and Confusion) and edits unique to Substance (Subculture, Shellshock, Hurt) should be kept, as they were decent edits shortening what were very long 12" versions, and made Substance what it is. Any more mucking about with tracklistings of the core album, and it'll cease to be Substance.

Not averse to a fourth bonus CD with a few other rarities as an addition to the remastered core Substance.

Also accompany it with digital releases of all the seven inches, including B-sides - as a companion to all the digital.12 inches that have been put out.


Agreed. A Collector's Edition with bonus disc seems more viable than going the full on Definitive Edtion box route. They can take my money either way, though.
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Mr Discography  
#153 Posted : 16 August 2022 09:44:11(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
I can't really see Substance getting the box set treatment. Only if physical media sales somehow tick up could I see how even a remastered/deluxe edition would be worthwhile. There wouldn't be as much of a production expense but I think the Definitive Editions are making it redundant.


How can you say that when the remastered 12" single tracks have not been included in the boxes, only released concurrently on new 12" pressings?

Substance needs a definitive box set.


Was thinking between the Collector's Editions, Definitive Editions and Recycle (wink, wink) that everything that would end up on a Substance set will have been covered.

I'm not saying I wouldn't buy a freshly remastered Substance box, just that commercially it might not be worthwhile to bring to market.


Yeah, it's a tricky call for the band. On paper, it's just a compilation, but to us fans it's much more than that: first time those classic 12 inches were ever on CD; songs that never featured on any albums in their Substance form; and many people's introduction to the band. It's been my favourite album by any artist for 35 years, despite the "compilation" status.

Maybe they just need a more straightforward remaster and release outside the "definitive editions" series on two separate formats:

- Double vinyl with original 12 tracks
- 3 x CD set as per my above suggestion (original 28 track cassette running order and versions with exception of Perfect Kiss' full 12")

I'd certainly buy both formats, but other fans could pick and choose which version they buy.

Edited by user 16 August 2022 14:23:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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perspexorange  
#154 Posted : 23 August 2022 03:47:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jcp7 Go to Quoted Post
Does Sputnik and Skullkrusher really deserve to be remastered? Evil


Big Grin

Possibly not their best work, but still pretty decent, IMHO.

I've long suspected that 'Sputnik' is actually part of the same piece of music as the 'Salvation Theme'; just different bits of a longer, atmospheric piece of music, that were separated out for release. Think 'Peter Saville Soundtrack' type thing.
Not sure when or why I started to think this way. I may have came to the conclusion possibly after watching the film, which might segue between the two tracks. I'm struggling to remember and I don't really want to watch the film again to check Big Grin. Possibly it's just due to the fact that the demos that are out there sometimes suse both names for the same track ('Salvation', with no 'Sputnik' demo available, afaik).

I admit though that this is pure speculation on my part. I'm probably wrong.
Still, it would be nice to think of a longer piece out there, which might get a release at some point.

As regards 'Skullcrusher', I quite like the piece (more so than 'Sputnik', which is nice but feels a bit pointless, IMHO).
Considering it made it's first live appearance in 1984 (three years before 'Salvation'), it's possible that a studio version of this track might've been attempted around Low Life.
So, I guess, there's a slight possibility that something Skullcrushery could turn up on this next set.

Hey, who knows? Maybe there's a studio version of 'Love Juice' out there? Wink


I know Johnny James probably wants to (understandably) stay tight-lipped regarding the contents of the Low Life set until officially announced. However, if he could shed light on when studio versions of the Salvation tracks were attempted, that'd be interesting. Also, if he has any info about whether 'Sputnik'/'Salvation' were from a longer bit of music etc?
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Mr. Disco  
#155 Posted : 23 August 2022 04:47:23(UTC)
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Are You Ready For This? got the remaster treatment, so why not the Salvation tracks?
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Johnny James  
#156 Posted : 23 August 2022 22:07:22(UTC)
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FYI we do have an issue with the Salvation masters. There's one reel in the library and stuff is missing from it. You can tell from what appeared on the Collector's Editions that what is there isn't quite the right mixes. Let's Go had to be patched from a CD.

I do have a lead on where we might find them, though I can't say at this stage what might appear on Brotherhood.
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perspexorange  
#157 Posted : 24 August 2022 00:51:35(UTC)
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Thasnks for the info, JJ.

here's hoping you find the reels.
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ROCKET MICK on 18/09/2022(UTC)
Andy  
#158 Posted : 24 August 2022 11:59:01(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jcp7 Go to Quoted Post
Does Sputnik and Skullkrusher really deserve to be remastered? Evil


Big Grin

Possibly not their best work, but still pretty decent, IMHO.

I've long suspected that 'Sputnik' is actually part of the same piece of music as the 'Salvation Theme'; just different bits of a longer, atmospheric piece of music, that were separated out for release. Think 'Peter Saville Soundtrack' type thing.
Not sure when or why I started to think this way. I may have came to the conclusion possibly after watching the film, which might segue between the two tracks. I'm struggling to remember and I don't really want to watch the film again to check Big Grin. Possibly it's just due to the fact that the demos that are out there sometimes suse both names for the same track ('Salvation', with no 'Sputnik' demo available, afaik).

I admit though that this is pure speculation on my part. I'm probably wrong.
Still, it would be nice to think of a longer piece out there, which might get a release at some point.

As regards 'Skullcrusher', I quite like the piece (more so than 'Sputnik', which is nice but feels a bit pointless, IMHO).
Considering it made it's first live appearance in 1984 (three years before 'Salvation'), it's possible that a studio version of this track might've been attempted around Low Life.
So, I guess, there's a slight possibility that something Skullcrushery could turn up on this next set.

Hey, who knows? Maybe there's a studio version of 'Love Juice' out there? Wink


I know Johnny James probably wants to (understandably) stay tight-lipped regarding the contents of the Low Life set until officially announced. However, if he could shed light on when studio versions of the Salvation tracks were attempted, that'd be interesting. Also, if he has any info about whether 'Sputnik'/'Salvation' were from a longer bit of music etc?


Here's some more speculation: I've always understood that New Order submitted music for Pretty in Pink that was soundtracky and atmospheric. They were then told by the producers something to the effect of "No, we want a song for the soundtrack album" and so rushed to assemble Shellshock. Could Salvation Theme and Sputnik be related to those rejected PiP atmospherics?

As it so happened, the film ended up using somewhat more atmospheric New Order tracks (Elegia and Thieves Like Us Instrumental) in the film far more than the snippet of Shellshock that only featured when a radio dial was being turned.

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ROCKET MICK on 18/09/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#159 Posted : 25 August 2022 01:37:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
far more than the snippet of Shellshock that only featured when a radio dial was being turned.



Actually, as well as on being on the radio for that super-quick snippet, they do play about a minute of 'Shellshock' later in the film (where Jon Cryer's character is riding his bike outside Molly Ringwald's character's house). It's basically the start of the song, so is just the intro (no singing), so is still relatively 'atmospheric'.

I'd never thought that the 'Salvation' tracks may have been remnants from 'Pretty In Pink'. An interesting theory and I'd like to know too.



Incidentally, I rather like 'Pretty In Pink'. Certainly much more so than the other 80s films the band's songs were used on ('Something Wild', 'Empire State', 'Salvation!', 'Bright Lights, Big City' and 'Married To The Mob'.).
I probably prefer PIP to 'The Breakfast Club', if truth be told. The use of New Order tracks probably sways my opinion though, naturally (and what fine choices in TLU and Elegia!).
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50poundnote  
#160 Posted : 25 August 2022 06:58:42(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
'Married To The Mob'


The soundtrack version of Bizarre Love Triangle is a favorite, though. New vocal from Bernard, and he sings a little melody between the verses that Stephen usually played on synth at gigs.
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ROCKET MICK on 18/09/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#161 Posted : 25 August 2022 07:10:38(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
'Married To The Mob'


The soundtrack version of Bizarre Love Triangle is a favorite, though. New vocal from Bernard, and he sings a little melody between the verses that Stephen usually played on synth at gigs.


Agreed. That Hague mix with the 'do-do-dos' and that lovely ending 'shimmer' is just wonderful.
My favourite version by far.
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ROCKET MICK on 18/09/2022(UTC)
Andy  
#162 Posted : 25 August 2022 12:50:49(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
far more than the snippet of Shellshock that only featured when a radio dial was being turned.



Actually, as well as on being on the radio for that super-quick snippet, they do play about a minute of 'Shellshock' later in the film (where Jon Cryer's character is riding his bike outside Molly Ringwald's character's house). It's basically the start of the song, so is just the intro (no singing), so is still relatively 'atmospheric'.

I'd never thought that the 'Salvation' tracks may have been remnants from 'Pretty In Pink'. An interesting theory and I'd like to know too.



Incidentally, I rather like 'Pretty In Pink'. Certainly much more so than the other 80s films the band's songs were used on ('Something Wild', 'Empire State', 'Salvation!', 'Bright Lights, Big City' and 'Married To The Mob'.).
I probably prefer PIP to 'The Breakfast Club', if truth be told. The use of New Order tracks probably sways my opinion though, naturally (and what fine choices in TLU and Elegia!).


It's been ages since I've seen it, but remember that bit as using TLU, with Elegia used for the rain scenes.

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ROCKET MICK on 18/09/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#163 Posted : 25 August 2022 14:20:57(UTC)
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I’ve got the clips saved from the film.

‘Shellshock’ is used when Jon Cryer is outside Molly Ringwald’s house, on his bike as well as very briefly on the radio before that.

‘Elegia’ is when Ringwald is crying in her bedroom and when she meets Andrew McCarthy at school.

‘Thieves Like Us’ is used when they’re all getting ready for prom, with Ringwald making her dress etc.

Not sure about the rain scenes, as I don’t have anything of that description saved. Maybe I missed that bit.

Let me know if you want the clips and I’ll send ‘em over.
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50poundnote  
#164 Posted : 25 August 2022 18:42:19(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Not sure about the rain scenes, as I don’t have anything of that description saved. Maybe I missed that bit.


I seem to recall rain - or at least wet pavement at night (a Hollywood trope) at the end, but isn't that to OMD's If You Leave?
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ROCKET MICK on 18/09/2022(UTC)
GotBlueEyes  
#165 Posted : 08 September 2022 07:13:27(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post

Here's some more speculation: I've always understood that New Order submitted music for Pretty in Pink that was soundtracky and atmospheric. They were then told by the producers something to the effect of "No, we want a song for the soundtrack album" and so rushed to assemble Shellshock.


That sounds an awful lot like the same story that OMD tell about them providing incidental music and the producers rejecting it, asking for a big song instead - so they knocked out "If You Leave"


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ROCKET MICK on 18/09/2022(UTC)
50poundnote  
#166 Posted : 08 September 2022 09:57:31(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
That sounds an awful lot like the same story that OMD tell about them providing incidental music and the producers rejecting it, asking for a big song instead - so they knocked out "If You Leave"


I have an online friend who's father worked at A&M assembling the soundtracks for John Hughes' films. Hughes routinely asked artists he liked to provide tunes, and my friend has a cassette of instrumental demos Robert Smith sent for consideration for Ferris Bueller's Day Off. None of them were used, and the first demo on the cassette turned into The Kiss, the first song on Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me the following year.

There's a 4 CD box set of music from the Hughes films coming out in November, called Life Moves Pretty Fast - The John Hughes Mixtapes. Weirdly, it contains Elegia, but not Shellshock (or the instrumental of TLU)...these things always come down to licensing issues.

Edited by user 08 September 2022 10:00:47(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Andy  
#167 Posted : 08 September 2022 10:06:02(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GotBlueEyes Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post

Here's some more speculation: I've always understood that New Order submitted music for Pretty in Pink that was soundtracky and atmospheric. They were then told by the producers something to the effect of "No, we want a song for the soundtrack album" and so rushed to assemble Shellshock.


That sounds an awful lot like the same story that OMD tell about them providing incidental music and the producers rejecting it, asking for a big song instead - so they knocked out "If You Leave"




OMD originally submitted Goddess of Love, but when test audiences were disappointed with the ending of the film, the director reshot who got the girl. The changed version necessitated something with different lyrical content (in the eyes of the director). OMD then hastily wrote If You Leave to order (they had also been requested to make it the same BPM as the song Don't You by Simple Minds, which people had been filmed dancing to in previously shot footage).

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perspexorange  
#168 Posted : 09 September 2022 01:10:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post

OMD originally submitted Goddess of Love, but when test audiences were disappointed with the ending of the film, the director reshot who got the girl. The changed version necessitated something with different lyrical content (in the eyes of the director). OMD then hastily wrote If You Leave to order (they had also been requested to make it the same BPM as the song Don't You by Simple Minds, which people had been filmed dancing to in previously shot footage).



Interesting. I'd never heard this before.
I had a friend who was convinced that Andie picked the wrong guy and the film was set up for Andie and Duckie to get together. So, it looks like this was the original intention.

According to Wikipedia, the original ending can't be located. Shame.

Thanks for the info.
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Debaser  
#169 Posted : 09 September 2022 03:07:10(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
I had a friend who was convinced that Andie picked the wrong guy and the film was set up for Andie and Duckie to get together. So, it looks like this was the original intention.

According to Wikipedia, the original ending can't be located. Shame.


The wikipedia page has a brief bit on the novel: "The film was adapted into a novel written by H. B. Gilmour and Randi Reisfield, released in 1986. ... The book was written before the last scene was changed, so it has the original ending in which Andie ends up with Duckie instead of Blane."

I actually read the novel, because a friend had it and I'd already (1) bought the soundtrack and then (2) seen the film. It was a short novel, and felt a bit like a girls' romance thing TBH.
He didnt tell me about the changed ending so it was a bit of a surprise. I gotta say though, I'm pretty sure that Duckie was gay and I'm pretty sure that Blane was a bit of an arse, so neither of them were right for her really! Molly Ringwald says Duckie was gay here, although Jon Cryer disagrees.

I would add that, having watched Ringwald in both the Breakfast Club (mentioned earlier in the thread) and Pretty In Pink in the last five years, The Breakfast Club has aged better.

And at the risk of offending people's nostalgic 80s memories, I would suggest that The Perks Of Being A Wallflower (2012) covers similar territory to both of the above, and is actually better than both of them. It's set around the late 80s or early 90's and its soundtrack includes NO's Temptation (plus The Smiths, Cocteau Twins, Bowie, Galaxie 500, Sonic Youth, Throwing Muses). The IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes scores speak for themselves.

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ROCKET MICK on 18/09/2022(UTC)
tapebias  
#170 Posted : 09 September 2022 11:46:34(UTC)
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In Breakfast Club, who was the fool with the gloves on indoors? Looked like an extra from the TBTHOG video or maybe played in an early version of Revenge. It was ok for teen years but not exactly Mike Leigh or Ken Loach.

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ROCKET MICK on 18/09/2022(UTC)
Jcp7  
#171 Posted : 10 September 2022 06:06:27(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: tapebias Go to Quoted Post
In Breakfast Club, who was the fool with the gloves on indoors?



Judd Nelson

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judd_Nelson
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ROCKET MICK on 18/09/2022(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#172 Posted : 23 September 2022 03:58:10(UTC)
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It's been a iong two years since the 'Power, Corruption & Lies' set. Hope we won't have to wait until 2024 for 'Brotherhood'!

I'm in eager anticipation for an announcement about the 'Low-Life' set now, given the mourning period for The Queen ended earlier this week. Wondered if it won't be announced whilst the Unity tour is in progress, but given the set is being manufactured, and the tour doesn't finish until 16 Oct, I'm hopeful we'll hear an announcement before then.

Any update Johnny?
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Debaser  
#173 Posted : 23 September 2022 11:22:21(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
given the mourning period for The Queen ended earlier this week.


Undoubtedly had a big affect on proceedings. Huge!

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ROCKET MICK on 24/09/2022(UTC)
Fotz  
#174 Posted : 23 September 2022 11:47:11(UTC)
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Indeed. The ending of the mourning period for The Queen will surely and undoubtedly really give the Low Life def box project the boot up the arse it needs to get it finished and ready for release. The two things are inextricably linked!
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ROCKET MICK on 24/09/2022(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#175 Posted : 23 September 2022 13:21:59(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
given the mourning period for The Queen ended earlier this week.

Undoubtedly had a big affect on proceedings. Huge!

Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Indeed. The ending of the mourning period for The Queen will surely and undoubtedly really give the Low Life def box project the boot up the arse it needs to get it finished and ready for release. The two things are inextricably linked!

Perhaps I should have elaborated on the speculative thoughts in my post.

I'm making the assumption both of you aren't living in the UK, because in the 11 days from Queenie dying to her funeral taking place, there was quite a media blackout, with many TV, advertising and media companies walking on eggshells to ensure that a certain easily-offended subset of the UK population didn't get upset by such companies seeming to carrying out their usual business. This led to a lot of publicity campaigns being put on hold until this Tuesday onwards. Given we know the box set is in production, there's hopefully an announcement and pre-sales coming very soon - so I was just wondering out loud if any such promotion had been put on hold for that reason.

Of course, it's highly likely my pondering was unfounded, and they just haven't got around to getting the box set marketing ready yet anyway! Johnny will no doubt be able to confirm that I was talking shite...! Laugh

In summary, I'm desperate to find out a track list and release date for the set, as I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on it!

thanks 1 user thanked Mr Discography for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 24/09/2022(UTC)
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