^ Thanks for posting.Looks like that was recorded at the same time as the Movement ones (same clothes etc.)

Question regarding the PCL extras CD. What's the distinction between "Writing Session Recordings" as opposed to "Demos" (which we had on Movement)?

It is on the Substance VHS, but I don't feel it belongs with Substance. It should stay with the Salvation tracks, wherever they end up (Brotherhood? Technique?) The film soundtrack came out in May '87, so that would lean toward Brotherhood, but the single came out after Substance (Wikipedia says June '87, but that's wrong. True Faith is FAC 183, TBTHOG is FAC 193, and I didn't see it for sale until December '87), so that would lean toward Technique.

Isn't it lovely to have this much material to debate?

For the lowlife box set can we please have the 17 minute version of Elegia on vinyl please Mr Johnny James?

The only version on vinyl is a bootleg so would be nice to have on 12”. We already have it on cd with the retro 5th disc.

Seems to be 4 X 12” per box set And for lowlife I can only think of the perfect kiss, Subculture and Shellshock ( the other 86 releases I presume would be on brotherhood box set) so the Elegia one would make it a nice round 4 x 12”

For me the substance box set is the one I’m least interested in. I already have the limited factory employees one and the normal one. On top of that I’m buying all the remastered 12” again and I have all the originals so I’m not sure what a box set of substance would be for as it is essentially just the A and B sides of the singles.

The Substance CD needs to be remastered.

I agree the box set thing is wonderful, it’s just substance Box set interests me the least. It’s a compilation so there can’t be any unreleased stuff or different versions as that will be covered on the other box sets. Don’t get mevwrong I lovecsubstance it’s an Incredibly important album in my liffe, just not sure what a box set will add. But I admit will look great with all the others!

I guess i'm in a minority but i've never been massively fussed about Substance.Wait, hear me out! No, what i mean is, when it was released it was all songs i'd been listening to for the previous few years anyway (with the exception of True Faith obviously) .At that point in time i would have preferred more new songs though we did get TF and 1963 and then TBTHOG.To me, Substance was more for people who were only vaguely aware of the band through Blue Monday and maybe one or two others.It was greatest hits for new fans to get into the band.And that was perfectly fine.All great songs of course but i'm always more hungry for new stuff.Says the man who will soon be spending out £135 on and old album PCL box set and 4 single re-releases haha!

But maybe a remastered Substance will get me listening to the album again instead of sticking on the old 12" singles.

Edited by user 09 August 2020 01:54:05(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

And me. I bought the double cassette from Spin Inn on Eccles precinct and played it in my car for what seemed like forever. My 1st Neworder purchase and a beloved item.

Substance needs to be remastered. For North America, it was THE gateway album to New Order, and none of the remastered 12" singles they're releasing are seeing a digital physical release, i.e. on CD, not just available to stream and download.

I still think the box sets are far too expensive and the video stuff is 'bundled' to justify the price. Since I'm not interested in the videos is there a possibility of an Aldi/Lidl version with audio only, no videos, t-shirts, books etc or am I missing the point that it's a collectors item.

Wire did great deluxe versions of their first 3 LPs in 7" sized hardback book covers for £30. £100+ is a joke. I'd want Bernard's PCL lab coat included at that price.

Substance: was this not done just for Wilson to play on his car's new CD player.

Nobody's saying that that isn't important. But it isn't a studio LP.
If this project is specifically looking at studio LPs, a case could be argued that it shouldn't be included as a 'Definitive Edition'.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this (I obviously want as many of these sets, and the additional tracks that come with them, as we can get), but would the LP really necessitate the full-to-bursting 'Definitive' package?:

Anything that would normally be covered in the included book will probably have been covered in previous books.
Live video material from 1987 could very easily have been covered in the Brotherhood era set.
The 12"s have, themselves, already been released (albeit not in a digital physical release, granted)
Etc.

I'm also not saying that it shouldn't be remastered and released (it certainly looks like that's in the plan anyway).

I'm just saying that it should be remastered and released, but it doesn't necessarily have to follow the 'Definitive Edition' release style and schedule.
It could just be a 'bare bones' release (like the recent 'Singles' re-release), or it could be a more expanded version as we've speculated above. I'm obviously hoping for the latter (at the very least).

I'd love a 'Definitive Substance', but I'm keeping an open mind. It wouldn't upset me greatly if we didn't get one, as long as it gets some form of release.

Movement CDs are available lossless on Qobuz. It will probably be the same for PCL.

I had seen Confusion once or twice on MTV in 1983.
I'd heard The Perfect Kiss once in a record shop in 1985.
I saw Bizarre Love Triangle on MTV, and went out and bought Brotherhood - but the cassette version, minus State of The Nation.

So the first time I played Substance was my first time hearing Ceremony, Everything's Gone Green, Temptation, Blue Monday, Thieves Like Us, Subculture, Shellshock, State Of The Nation, the remix of Bizarre Love Triangle, and True Faith. And I'd picked up the 2-cassette Factory import with the slipcase, so I had all the B-sides to explore. It's not exaggerating to say that album changed my life.

Edited by user 10 August 2020 07:49:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified