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spooky  
#26 Posted : 03 February 2019 03:43:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Ah... I miss the days when they'd mess it up so spectacularly.

On any given gig, you'd get at least one of the following:

a) Barney completely missing his cue
b) Barney singing the same verse twice.
b) Barney chucking in lyrical 'variations', either when he'd forgotten the words, or felt like being contrary and making stuff up on the spot ('I've got a cock like the M1', 'Love Juice', "I had a wank from a girl with a spotty back' etc.).
c) Hooky or Gillian or Barney being out of key.
d) Barney's voice fluctuating wildly, one moment to the next. From deep in his boots to falsetto (see Age Of Consent, Temptation and Blue Monday).
e) The drum machine / synths / sequencers breaking down or refusing to talk to each other.
f) Barney (again) adding exceedingly loud guitar parts where they really weren't needed, completely drowning out the sequencers.
g) Hooky / Barney having some ongoing argument with a 'punter' in the crowd / sound engineer / lighting technician / anyone who happened to piss them off etc.

And I'm not even joking... I really do miss the haphazardness of a New Order gig (we probably all do).

Everything's far too polished now.
Don't get me wrong, I still love the gigs they do today, but there was something incredible about them back in the day.
Gigs teetering on the brink. Collapsing into chaos at any given moment.

I can't think of (m)any other bands so cavalier in their approach to gigs. Crazy when you think that, in the studio, they probably spent hours / days perfecting songs. Only to potentially mess 'em up live, on a whim. Fantastic stuff!

New Order. Always unpredictable. Always absolutely brilliant.



... well the whole fun of going to a NO show(back in the 80's) was to see how bad they could mess up their own songs. i think it wasn't till the late 90's, that they actually seemed more well rehearsed for live performance.
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Rocket Mick on 03/02/2019(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#27 Posted : 06 February 2019 03:28:48(UTC)
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The PCL review is weird cos (a) Tennant is to NO what I am to the Spice Girls, and (b) it's far better than Movement, which he praised (as I said in the Definitive Edition thread).
My brother steals from sweet shops. Takes all sorts.
I remember when SH printed the lyrics to DSisappointed: they had a page pic of Neil and no Bernard or Johnny. Bastards.

Edited by user 06 February 2019 03:30:17(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 08/02/2019(UTC)
thehim  
#28 Posted : 06 February 2019 03:29:39(UTC)
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I remember the True Faith lyrics in Smash Hits. I couldn’t figure out the chorus back then.
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Rocket Mick on 08/02/2019(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#29 Posted : 06 February 2019 03:31:42(UTC)
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The Tightening Up (see what I etc) of live performances started in 1989 for the very practical reason that travelling long distances meant they had to programme in advance.
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Rocket Mick on 08/02/2019(UTC)
is it bro  
#30 Posted : 06 February 2019 08:59:50(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
The Tightening Up (see what I etc) of live performances started in 1989 for the very practical reason that travelling long distances meant they had to programme in advance.


It took them Decades to Face Up to that Fac.

(See what I did there. I’ll get my coat😕)
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Rocket Mick on 08/02/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#31 Posted : 06 February 2019 12:51:59(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
it's far better than Movement, which he praised (as I said in the Definitive Edition thread).


You’re right, Michael.

Not sure how I missed that this was written by Tennant. Forgive the bad quality (but readable) scan; doing this on my ‘phone.

UserPostedImage

08/02/19 - I've tidied up the above image so it's a little better resolution.

Edited by user 08 February 2019 11:57:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 08/02/2019(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#32 Posted : 07 February 2019 02:47:13(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: is it bro Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
The Tightening Up (see what I etc) of live performances started in 1989 for the very practical reason that travelling long distances meant they had to programme in advance.


It took them Decades to Face Up to that Fac.

(See what I did there. I’ll get my coat😕)


I have to stop swearing, splitting infinitives and talking about the Spice Girls. It's what I want, what I really really want to fucking do.
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Rocket Mick on 08/02/2019(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#33 Posted : 07 February 2019 02:48:50(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

You’re right, Michael.




You don't hear that very often. Better lower my standards.
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Rocket Mick on 08/02/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#34 Posted : 07 February 2019 11:48:45(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

You’re right, Michael.




Better lower my standards.



Dear Lord! Mercy! Big Grin
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Rocket Mick on 08/02/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#35 Posted : 08 February 2019 11:42:14(UTC)
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This landed on the internet today, at the usual place (http://likepunkneverhappened.blogspot.com)"

UserPostedImage
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Rocket Mick on 09/02/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#36 Posted : 08 February 2019 12:15:37(UTC)
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And to complete the Factory LP collection (after the 3 x Tennant reviews and the new one that arrived today), here is the 'Brotherhood' review:

UserPostedImage

So, the 'Smash Hits' scores are in:

'Movement' 8/10
'Power, Corruption and Lies' 6.5/10
'Low Life' 8/10
'Brotherhood' 5/10
'Technique' 8/10

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Rocket Mick on 09/02/2019(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#37 Posted : 09 February 2019 03:25:49(UTC)
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Thanks for the mammaries - remember both of those... Not least for 'Singer Peter Hooke'.
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Rocket Mick on 10/02/2019(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#38 Posted : 09 February 2019 05:09:40(UTC)
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Thanks for those Technique and Brotherhood reviews, p.

I probably read them at the time but reading them again now kind of reminds me of a time when New Order weren’t gushed over by journalists as they are now. To many hacks back in the day New Order were a bit hit and miss.Kind of like I said in an earlier post on this thread though, those same people would now say New Order were always brilliant. The review of Technique is positive but not so much the Brotherhood one.

Other reviews that always stayed in my head were Steve Sutherland’s on of Low Life in Melody Maker. He conceded he was totally converted whereas before he wasn’t convinced. Think it was him that gave a scathing review of the Michael Sobell Centre gig just a few months before Low Life was released.

Miranda Sawyer reviewed Brotherhood for NME or Melody Maker and was completely bowled over by it. I read it before I heard the album and so was was expecting Brotherhood to be the greatest album ever made. Turned out it, for me, wasn’t quite that great. Good but not great.
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Rocket Mick on 10/02/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#39 Posted : 09 February 2019 08:33:53(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the mammaries - remember both of those... Not least for 'Singer Peter Hooke'.


My pleasure. Glad people have enjoyed them. Not sure if I can be arsed to post the singles reviews. Maybe, I'll sling em into a zip folder. Save me uploading them one at a time.

Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for those Technique and Brotherhood reviews, p.

I probably read them at the time but reading them again now kind of reminds me of a time when New Order weren’t gushed over by journalists as they are now. To many hacks back in the day New Order were a bit hit and miss.Kind of like I said in an earlier post on this thread though, those same people would now say New Order were always brilliant. The review of Technique is positive but not so much the Brotherhood one.

Other reviews that always stayed in my head were Steve Sutherland’s on of Low Life in Melody Maker. He conceded he was totally converted whereas before he wasn’t convinced. Think it was him that gave a scathing review of the Michael Sobell Centre gig just a few months before Low Life was released.

Miranda Sawyer reviewed Brotherhood for NME or Melody Maker and was completely bowled over by it. I read it before I heard the album and so was was expecting Brotherhood to be the greatest album ever made. Turned out it, for me, wasn’t quite that great. Good but not great.


Yeah. I have much the same feelings about 'Brotherhood'. It's good, but just doesn't quite reach the level of at least 3 of the other 80s LPs. As regards those 5, I'd probably rank 'Brotherhood' at the bottom.

Reviews are terribly subjective, aren't they?

Not sure if there's any rhyme or reason to how reviewers are selected. Luck of the draw? Or some general knowledge of the genre required (the latter, I guess).
I can't imagine that a guy used to reviewing jazz fusion LPs will be too enamoured with the latest Cradle Of Filth offering.

However, if you do select on this criteria (knowledge / genre), I guess you run the risk of the 'Lester Effect'. Where readers dismisses every positive point the reviewer states, quoting extreme bias.

I remember at the time of 'Republic', Paul Lester seemed to be reviewing pretty much anything New Order related (Electronic, Revenge, OT etc.). Can't remember if he was reviewing for NME or MM, but I think he also reviewed for a couple of 'glossies' (some short-lived).
He's obviously a massive fan, but his reviews appeared blind to the records' respective weaknesses. I learned to pretty much take his reviews with a massive bucket of salt. I mean, I am a big fan, but even I'm not going to say that 'Chemical' is the best thing since 'The Perfect Kiss'.*
I'm sure 'sickeningly glowing' reviews never bothered New Order though. Far from it. He probably increased their sales considerably.

Conversely, it must get up bands' noses when their latest record is given to some guy who slated their previous two LPs, their current single and a few gigs.




* Review / Example not strictly true, but is representative of the review alluded to. Terms and Conditions apply. May cause nausea and diarrhoea.
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Rocket Mick on 10/02/2019(UTC)
Debaser  
#40 Posted : 09 February 2019 09:41:09(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Miranda Sawyer reviewed Brotherhood for NME or Melody Maker and was completely bowled over by it. I read it before I heard the album and so was was expecting Brotherhood to be the greatest album ever made. Turned out it, for me, wasn’t quite that great. Good but not great.


Was that the review that called NO a beacon of light shining through the darkness, or something?
I think the BLT/All Day Long side of the record is superb. The other side, not so much. Game of two halves.

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Rocket Mick on 10/02/2019(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#41 Posted : 09 February 2019 09:54:26(UTC)
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The great thing about these reviews is (a) nostalga and (b) going back to the day and seeing what it was REALLY like... It's like rewatching Monty Python's Flying Circus or rereading The Catcher in the Rye or relistening to The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. You're so overwhelmed by nostalgia you forget the mediocrity! The critical and commercial response to New Order all through the 80s was always lukewarm - even Neil Tennant couldn't rise above 8/10 - then suddenly in the 90s they were being plugged as this massively influential, totally essential, utterly unavoidable legendary outfit who'd changed 80s music and even lives! In the words of the castrate, am I missing something? Think about how many bands were / have been / are influenced by the Beatles - or how many punk outfits the Pistols kickstarted almost overnight - were there really all these 578946848765740 80s bands all trying desperately to emulate New Order? Even Little Mix said, We wanna be the new Spice Girls.

Edited by user 09 February 2019 09:56:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 10/02/2019(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#42 Posted : 09 February 2019 10:04:28(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Miranda Sawyer reviewed Brotherhood for NME or Melody Maker and was completely bowled over by it. I read it before I heard the album and so was was expecting Brotherhood to be the greatest album ever made. Turned out it, for me, wasn’t quite that great. Good but not great.


Was that the review that called NO a beacon of light shining through the darkness, or something?





Not sure, maybe.Can't recall that bit.I do remember though that she went on about how the music stirs the soul like the pastures and rolling hills of England's green and pleasant land does, or something along those lines.

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Rocket Mick on 10/02/2019(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#43 Posted : 09 February 2019 15:06:16(UTC)
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Steve Sutherland's review in Melody Maker of the January 1985 gig at Michael Sobell Centre.I think it's quite a negative one but it wasn't always entirely certain with a lot of reviewers back in the day.That gig was to be fair a bit of a car crash wasn't it?

UserPostedImage

4 months later, again in Melody Maker, Mr Sutherland was totally converted by Low Life.

UserPostedImage
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Rocket Mick on 10/02/2019(UTC), perspexorange on 10/02/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#44 Posted : 10 February 2019 03:08:04(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Steve Sutherland's review in Melody Maker of the January 1985 gig at Michael Sobell Centre.I think it's quite a negative one but it wasn't always entirely certain with a lot of reviewers back in the day.That gig was to be fair a bit of a car crash wasn't it?

4 months later, again in Melody Maker, Mr Sutherland was totally converted by Low Life.


Thanks for posting these.
His review of Low Life verges on idolation. Too damn right, too. It’s a great LP.

Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
The critical and commercial response to New Order all through the 80s was always lukewarm - even Neil Tennant couldn't rise above 8/10 - then suddenly in the 90s they were being plugged as this massively influential, totally essential, utterly unavoidable legendary outfit who'd changed 80s music and even lives! In the words of the castrate, am I missing something? Think about how many bands were / have been / are influenced by the Beatles - or how many punk outfits the Pistols kickstarted almost overnight - were there really all these 578946848765740 80s bands all trying desperately to emulate New Order?


I do agree with you in that a lot of the reviews in the 80s were less than stellar; just reasonable reviews.
I guess time elapsing has an impact on the gravity of music.

However, I do think though that Joy Division / New Order were pretty damn influential.
I won’t list all the bands that were obviously influenced by them (we all know who they are).

But generally, speaking, a large number of post-punk bands were influenced by JD, both at the time and those ‘revival’ bands
(Robert Smith changed the direction of his band having heard JD and The Banshees and realising that his band could be ‘more’).
Similarly, lots of indie guitar bands we’re influenced by New Order. Dance bands too. I would hazard a guess that a lot of the people producing dance music of the late 80s and 90s were pretty keen on the band.

This is the benefit of New Order being a hybrid band; their music appealed to musicians who were focussed on synths, guitars, or both. Not too many bands that you can say that about.

Influence is a bit of a weird thing. Where do you draw the line as to who influenced who?
You could say that influence is not necessarily about how many bands you directly influence, but also which bands you influence who, in turn, influence multiple bands.
I’m not saying that the band (in both of their incarnations) didn’t directly influence a tonne of bands (they did!). However, when you have big hitters such as The Cure, U2, Stone Roses, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Moby etc. paying homage, you know that they are not just influencing those big bands, but all the other smaller bands that were inspired by the bands I’ve just mentioned.

This is why the importance of The Velvet Underground, David Bowie, Roxy Music and Kraftwerk shouldn’t be underestimated. There are probably people out there making incredible electronic music that have never heard ‘Computer World’ (shame).
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Rocket Mick on 11/02/2019(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#45 Posted : 10 February 2019 03:18:35(UTC)
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Yes, thanks for posting.
No, Lowlife ain't a great LP. Massively over-rated.
I think NO's influence is more Stance than Substance, but feels like I've been here before.
They say you only appreciate something after you've lost it. Virginity?

Edited by user 10 February 2019 03:20:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 11/02/2019(UTC)
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