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50poundnote  
#1 Posted : 06 February 2023 08:22:46(UTC)
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Have at it.
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50poundnote  
#2 Posted : 06 February 2023 08:25:36(UTC)
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I'll backtrack my earlier statements and say it doesn't necessarily need the box set treatment with a book and DVDs, but it needs to be done right, mopping up all the tracks from the reissued 12" singles across multiple CDs, and a nice gatefold double LP.
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Andy  
#3 Posted : 06 February 2023 10:56:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
I'll backtrack my earlier statements and say it doesn't necessarily need the box set treatment with a book and DVDs, but it needs to be done right, mopping up all the tracks from the reissued 12" singles across multiple CDs, and a nice gatefold double LP.


I tend to agree. I'm not sure there is a lot of bonus audio material from that era but will be happy to be proved wrong.

But I do want to believe there would be an increase in available video footage as their profile rose. Although stuff like them lip-synching at San Remo isn't particularly compelling, surely there are other appearances and gig footage that fit better here than in the Brotherhood box.

Edited by user 06 February 2023 10:58:16(UTC)  | Reason: Sloppy punctuation

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ROCKET MICK on 06/02/2023(UTC)
Johnny James  
#4 Posted : 06 February 2023 13:04:47(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
I'll backtrack my earlier statements and say it doesn't necessarily need the box set treatment with a book and DVDs, but it needs to be done right, mopping up all the tracks from the reissued 12" singles across multiple CDs, and a nice gatefold double LP.


I tend to agree. I'm not sure there is a lot of bonus audio material from that era but will be happy to be proved wrong.

But I do want to believe there would be an increase in available video footage as their profile rose. Although stuff like them lip-synching at San Remo isn't particularly compelling, surely there are other appearances and gig footage that fit better here than in the Brotherhood box.


There isn't much. There's not even a huge amount for Brotherhood.

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Andy  
#5 Posted : 06 February 2023 13:42:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
I'll backtrack my earlier statements and say it doesn't necessarily need the box set treatment with a book and DVDs, but it needs to be done right, mopping up all the tracks from the reissued 12" singles across multiple CDs, and a nice gatefold double LP.


I tend to agree. I'm not sure there is a lot of bonus audio material from that era but will be happy to be proved wrong.

But I do want to believe there would be an increase in available video footage as their profile rose. Although stuff like them lip-synching at San Remo isn't particularly compelling, surely there are other appearances and gig footage that fit better here than in the Brotherhood box.


There isn't much. There's not even a huge amount for Brotherhood.



Sad news. I figured Academy was a given but it's disappointing to learn that there isn't much available. Still, it's better to learn this now to temper our expectations.

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ROCKET MICK on 06/02/2023(UTC)
50poundnote  
#6 Posted : 06 February 2023 14:50:54(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
There isn't much. There's not even a huge amount for Brotherhood.


I really wish there was a soundboard recording of the show at New York City's Pier 84, August 25, 1987 (my 17th birthday). Otherwise known as the Chapter III bootleg, it's my favorite New Order gig, and they play four songs from Brotherhood.

Someone could take a shot at combining the known recordings into one composite mix.
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negative1  
#7 Posted : 15 February 2023 07:12:53(UTC)
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i don't know what would be needed on the cd version. besides a remaster.
a deluxe version would get out of hand with all the mixes etc.

of course, doing a vinyl boxset would be easy. just take all the current remasters.
throw in true faith (uk), and true faith remix (australian) and call it a day.

UserPostedImage

Code:


so they would be:
------------------
1 ceremony 1
2 ceremony 2

3 everythings gone green

4 temptation - hurt

5 blue monday

6 confusion

7 thieves like us

8 murder

9 perfect kiss

10 subculture

11 shellshock

12 state of the nation

13 bizarre love triangle

14 true faith
15 true faith remix
=====
1 green
New Order – Ceremony

Label:    Factory – FAC. 33, Factory – FAC 33/12

2 white blue
New Order – Ceremony

Label:    Factory – FAC. 33, Factory – FAC 33/12
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single, Reissue, Repress, Cream/Blue Sleeve

3 everythings gone green
Label:    Factory Benelux – FBNL 8
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    Belgium

4 temptation - hurt
Label:    Factory – fac 63
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    UK

5 blue monday
Label:    Factory – FAC 73
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    UK

6 confusion
Label:    Factory – Fac 93
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single, Embossed Sleeve
Country:    UK


7 thieves like us
Label:    Factory – FAC 103
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single, Stereo
Country:    UK

8 murder
Label:    Factory Benelux – FBN 22
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    Belgium

9 perfect kiss
Label:    Factory – Fac 123
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single, Stereo, Black Inner Sleeve, MPO Pressing
Country:    UK

10 subculture
Label:    Factory – fac 133
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single, Stereo
Country:    UK

11 shellshock
Label:    Factory – Fac 143
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    UK

12 state of the nation
Label:    Factory – FAC 153
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", Single, 45 RPM
Country:    UK

13 bizarre love triangle
Label:    Factory – FAC 163
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", Single, 45 RPM
Country:    UK


14 true faith
Label:    Factory – Fac 183
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    UK

15 true faith remix
Label:    Factory Records Australasia – Fac 183R
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 33 RPM
Country:    Australia



later

| | || || |||
ne gativ e 1

Edited by user 15 February 2023 07:30:00(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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GotBlueEyes  
#8 Posted : 15 February 2023 07:37:52(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: negative1 Go to Quoted Post
i don't know what would be needed on the cd version. besides a remaster.
a deluxe version would get out of hand with all the mixes etc.

of course, doing a vinyl boxset would be easy. just take all the current remasters.
throw in true faith (uk), and true faith remix (australian) and call it a day.

UserPostedImage

Code:


so they would be:
------------------
1 ceremony 1
2 ceremony 2

3 everythings gone green

4 temptation - hurt

5 blue monday

6 confusion

7 thieves like us

8 murder

9 perfect kiss

10 subculture

11 shellshock

12 state of the nation

13 bizarre love triangle

14 true faith
15 true faith remix
=====
1 green
New Order – Ceremony

Label:    Factory – FAC. 33, Factory – FAC 33/12

2 white blue
New Order – Ceremony

Label:    Factory – FAC. 33, Factory – FAC 33/12
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single, Reissue, Repress, Cream/Blue Sleeve

3 everythings gone green
Label:    Factory Benelux – FBNL 8
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    Belgium

4 temptation - hurt
Label:    Factory – fac 63
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    UK

5 blue monday
Label:    Factory – FAC 73
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    UK

6 confusion
Label:    Factory – Fac 93
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single, Embossed Sleeve
Country:    UK


7 thieves like us
Label:    Factory – FAC 103
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single, Stereo
Country:    UK

8 murder
Label:    Factory Benelux – FBN 22
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    Belgium

9 perfect kiss
Label:    Factory – Fac 123
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single, Stereo, Black Inner Sleeve, MPO Pressing
Country:    UK

10 subculture
Label:    Factory – fac 133
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single, Stereo
Country:    UK

11 shellshock
Label:    Factory – Fac 143
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    UK

12 state of the nation
Label:    Factory – FAC 153
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", Single, 45 RPM
Country:    UK

13 bizarre love triangle
Label:    Factory – FAC 163
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", Single, 45 RPM
Country:    UK


14 true faith
Label:    Factory – Fac 183
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 45 RPM, Single
Country:    UK

15 true faith remix
Label:    Factory Records Australasia – Fac 183R
Format:    
Vinyl, 12", 33 RPM
Country:    Australia



later

| | || || |||
ne gativ e 1


Plus the Procession 7" as a bonus ;)

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ROCKET MICK on 15/02/2023(UTC)
Mr. Disco  
#9 Posted : 26 July 2023 06:05:10(UTC)
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Stephen just revealed they're going to reissue Substance (including bonus/live tracks??).

From 1h17min:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001nsd3
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Debaser  
#10 Posted : 26 July 2023 06:51:52(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr. Disco Go to Quoted Post
Stephen just revealed they're going to reissue Substance (including bonus/live tracks??).

From 1h17min:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001nsd3


Yes, Fotz beat you to it in the Ceremony section.
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perspexorange  
#11 Posted : 26 July 2023 08:14:07(UTC)
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Good news indeed!
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Andy  
#12 Posted : 26 July 2023 08:40:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mr. Disco Go to Quoted Post
Stephen just revealed they're going to reissue Substance (including bonus/live tracks??).

From 1h17min:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001nsd3


Yes, Fotz beat you to it in the Ceremony section.


I guess because they discuss the upcoming gigs. But it makes sense to mention the reissue in this thread.

Does this count as an announcement of a Definitive Substance set? There is speculation that he meant the Brotherhood box. Would you be able to clarify this, Johnny James?

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Mr Discography  
#13 Posted : 26 July 2023 13:52:27(UTC)
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Good news. Given how far in advance they have to pick tracks and prepare the releases, I guess this means it might be coming between the 'Brotherhood' and 'Technique' definitive editions. Or perhaps an accompanying release at the same time as 'Brotherhood' so the 12" singles from 'State Of The Nation' to 'Blue Monday 1988' can all come out simultaneously without us lot having to worry about whether each should be associated with 'Brotherhood' or 'Substance'! I assume the live versions they spoke about in the interview would be a DVD rather than bonus live CD.

I've stated it several times before, but I'd do the following:
- Double vinyl with same 12 tracks and versions as original LP (including 1987 re-recordings of 'Temptation' and 'Confusion', 'Substance' edits of 'Shellshock' and 'Sub-Culture' and the full length 'The Perfect Kiss' - which the original LP included)
- 3 x CD containing all tracks on the original double cassette release (including 1987 re-recordings of 'Temptation' and 'Confusion' and 'Substance' edits of 'Shellshock', 'Sub-Culture' and 'Hurt' as per the original tracklist), with following changes:
--Full length 'The Perfect Kiss' 12", as per the original LP version
--Correct version of 'In A Lonely Place' (the original 'Substance' featured the alternate version, not the original 12" version)
--Put 'Murder' between 'Lonesome Tonight' and 'Thieves Like Us Instrumental' on CD2 (to make CD1 have the same 12 tracks as the original vinyl)
--Obviously get the track titles the right way round for 'Cries & Whispers' followed by 'Mesh' this time!

It' s my (and many others') favourite album, so no need to mess with the running order or track selection in any major way - otherwise it ceases to be the 'Substance' I know and love.

Also simultaneously release the 7" singles digitally, so they can accompany the 12" singles released digitally so far, and we can finally get digital versions of the B-side edits and Dub edits yet to be released digitally - be great for these to be available on digital stores and streaming at long last.

Johnny, now it's been "announced" in some form, anything you can tell us about where in the Definitive Edition schedule the 'Substance' reissue is expected to land?

EDIT: But yes, reckon it's very likely Steve meant Brotherhood and said Substance by mistake. Perhaps Johnny can confirm?

Edited by user 26 July 2023 14:33:05(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Andy  
#14 Posted : 26 July 2023 19:01:08(UTC)
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I've always imagined there was a soundboard recording of this made for posterity as it's a very particular setlist. However, I've only ever found the audience recording. The intro to "True Faith" might be problematic for release though, and not just for borrowing "The Passenger"!:

Substance.Setlist.fm
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negative1  
#15 Posted : 12 September 2023 11:26:34(UTC)
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Here you go :

links and more... 4xcd and 2xcd

looks like a good listing... have at it:


4CD Definitive Edition
US - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CHV27J7G/?tag=imwan-20
CA - Available for pre-order soon: https://www.amazon.ca/dp...CHV27J7G/?tag=imwanca-20
UK - Available for pre-order soon: https://www.amazon.co.uk...B0CHV27J7G/?tag=imwan-21

2CD Expanded Edition (contains CD1 and CD2 only)
US - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CHTM3ZMG/?tag=imwan-20
CA - Available for pre-order soon: https://www.amazon.ca/dp...CHTM3ZMG/?tag=imwanca-20
UK - Available for pre-order soon: https://www.amazon.co.uk...B0CHTM3ZMG/?tag=imwan-21

UserPostedImage

Tracklist
[CD1]
1. Ceremony (Version 2) [2019 Remaster]
2. Everythings Gone Green (2019 Remaster)
3. Temptation '87 (2023 Remaster)
4. Blue Monday (2020 Remaster)
5. Confusion '87 (2023 Remaster)
6. Thieves Like Us (2020 Remaster)
7. The Perfect Kiss (2022 Remaster)
8. Sub-Culture (John Robie Remix) [Substance Edit] [2023 Remaster]
9. Shellshock (Substance Edit) [2023 Remaster]
10. State Of The Nation (2023 Remaster)
11. Bizarre Love Triangle (Shep Pettibone Remix) [2023 Remaster]
12. True Faith (2023 Digital Master)

[CD2]
1. In A Lonely Place (2019 Remaster)
2. Procession (2015 Remaster)
3. Cries And Whispers (2019 Remaster)
4. Hurt (Substance Edit) [2023 Remaster]
5. The Beach (2020 Remaster)
6. Confusion (Instrumental) [2020 Remaster]
7. Lonesome Tonight (2020 Remaster)
8. Murder (2020 Remaster)
9. Thieves Like Us (Instrumental) [2020 Remaster]
10. The Kiss Of Death (2022 Remaster)
11. Shame Of The Nation (2023 Remaster)
12. 1963 (2023 Digital Master)

[CD3]
1. Ceremony (Version 1) [2019 Remaster]
2. Mesh (2019 Remaster)
3. Temptation (2018 Remaster)
4. Confusion (2020 Remaster)
5. Perfect Pit (2022 Remaster)
6. Dub-Vulture (John Robie Remix) [2022 Remaster]
7. Shellcock (2022 Remaster)
8. Bizarre Dub Triangle (Shep Pettibone Remix)
9. True Dub (Shep Pettibone Remix) [2023 Remaster]
10. Confusion Dub '87 (2023 Remaster)
11. True Faith (Shep Pettibone Remix) [2023 Digital Master]

[CD4]
1. Ceremony (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
2. Everythings Gone Green (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
3. Temptation (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
4. Blue Monday (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
5. Confusion (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
6. Thieves Like Us (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
7. The Perfect Kiss (Substance Edit) [Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987]
8. Sub-Culture (Substance Edit) [Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987]
9. Shellshock (Substance Edit) [Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987]
10. State Of The Nation (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
11. Bizarre Love Triangle (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)
12. True Faith (Live At Irvine Meadows, San Bernadino California, September 1987)

later
|| | || | | ||
n egat ive 1
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perspexorange  
#16 Posted : 12 September 2023 12:04:58(UTC)
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Wow! This looks nigh on perfect.

Everything from the original cassette version, plus bonus original Temptation, original Confusion, Perfect Pit, True Dub, True Faith Remix, Ceremony (original), Confusion Dub '87.
Plus Irvine Meadows gig where they played a Substance set.

I think the only thing missing of note from 12"s would be Confused Beats and Confusion Rough Mix, which isn't much of a loss (and would be a bit Confusion heavy).
Oh, and full Sub-Culture and Shellshock mixes (again, no great loss, given how repetitive they are).
Hurt appears to be the edit, as well. Assuming TPK is full-length.

Any press release for this?


Incidentally, UK links don't work.

Edited by user 12 September 2023 12:12:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Johnny James  
#17 Posted : 12 September 2023 12:08:50(UTC)
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This is supposed to be embargoed until tomorrow.

Proper announcement then.
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perspexorange  
#18 Posted : 12 September 2023 12:10:20(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
This is supposed to be embargoed until tomorrow.

Proper announcement then.


Ace! I look forward to that.
Still - looks mighty tasty, Johnny. Take my money already.
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negative1  
#19 Posted : 12 September 2023 12:20:51(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Wow! This looks nigh on perfect.

Everything from the original cassette version, plus bonus original Temptation, original Confusion, Perfect Pit, True Dub, True Faith Remix, Ceremony (original), Confusion Dub '87.
Plus Irvine Meadows gig where they played a Substance set.


i wouldn't call it perfect, there are still tracks and edits missing.
what happened to the paradise remix? and the remix edits?

other confusion mixes, etc.. as you mentioned.


Quote:


Any press release for this?


Incidentally, UK links don't work.


yes, it said that
UK - Available for pre-order soon:

later

| || ||| ||
ne gative 1


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perspexorange  
#20 Posted : 12 September 2023 12:45:15(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: negative1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Wow! This looks nigh on perfect.



i wouldn't call it perfect, there are still tracks and edits missing.
what happened to the paradise remix? and the remix edits?

other confusion mixes, etc.. as you mentioned.



That's why I said 'nigh on', meaning 'near' perfect. Wink

I guess they had to make a judgment call.
To include full length Hurt, Sub-Culture, Shellshock, 2 x Confusion remixes, Paradise remix would've presumably meant an extra disc, some wasted space, and a fair amount of repetitive remixes (especially Confusion).
There's probably a handful of other things too, but nothing major (True Faith 7" remix, exclusive edit of Sub-Culture on the Factory Banelux release, the soundtrack variants of Shellshock etc.), but there's an argument that these aren't the 12" versions anyway, and that's what Substance was all about - 12"s plus b-sides. If you include everything, you have to include 7"s, which would just get a bit stupid (and not what Substance was all about).

I guess they could've skipped the Irvine Meadows disc to make room for missing mixes, but I for one am glad that this is included. I'd imagine that the inclusion of that might tempt some fans who are on the fence on buying it, as it's 'new material'.

Edited by user 12 September 2023 12:46:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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negative1 on 12/09/2023(UTC), Like No Other on 12/09/2023(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 12/09/2023(UTC), Mr. Disco on 13/09/2023(UTC)
Andy  
#21 Posted : 12 September 2023 14:09:43(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
This is supposed to be embargoed until tomorrow.

Proper announcement then.


Why is this releasing before a Brotherhood box? Is it simply due to it being easier to compile?

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Jcp7  
#22 Posted : 12 September 2023 14:25:22(UTC)
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Like No Other on 12/09/2023(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 12/09/2023(UTC)
perspexorange  
#23 Posted : 12 September 2023 14:39:36(UTC)
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Not sure why all of the qobuz tracks say 2023 Digital Master.
Surely they haven’t been remastered again.

I think the descriptions given in -ve1’s post are probably more accurate.
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depthcharge  
#24 Posted : 12 September 2023 20:41:13(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

Not sure why all of the qobuz tracks say 2023 Digital Master.
Surely they haven’t been remastered again.

I think the descriptions given in -ve1’s post are probably more accurate.


Juno has Confusion Dub '87 as a 2023 DM as well.



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Like No Other  
#25 Posted : 12 September 2023 21:34:36(UTC)
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No Box set with vinyl mentioned yet, surely will be a vinyl version even if not a box set?
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ROCKET MICK on 12/09/2023(UTC), Mr. Disco on 13/09/2023(UTC)
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