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LostSiren  
#1 Posted : 14 October 2021 05:20:56(UTC)
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So, seeing as Paul McCartney felt the need to diss the Rolling Stones in an interview, it got me wondering, when Hooky, Barney et al are 79 and feeling the need to get in one last dig before retiring, who over the 55+ years (by then) are they still holding an unseemly grudge against?

Edited by user 14 October 2021 05:48:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
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50poundnote  
#2 Posted : 14 October 2021 07:26:05(UTC)
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Barney will never say anything. They never did socialize much or tour with other bands prior to 1987, did they?

Hook will still be bitching about the rest of New Order.

Edited by user 14 October 2021 14:00:41(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#3 Posted : 14 October 2021 08:34:04(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Barney will never say anything. They never did socialize much or tour with other bands, prior to 1987, did they?

Hook will still be bitching about the rest of New Order.


^^^This^^^

Steve & Gillian will be as diplomatic as ever (or, if you prefer, will remain sat firmly on the fence).

I've never really heard Bernard openly criticise anyone, or at least not to any major extent.
Not sure if he bitches about anyone in his book (which I have still yet to read) though.

Also, as I've said on another thread, I've never heard anyone say anything really bad about Bernard. Apart from Hooky, that is.

I'm sure Mr. Sumner is no angel, but he doesn't seem the type to get involved in squabbles, if he doesn't have to.

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
tapebias  
#4 Posted : 14 October 2021 09:21:46(UTC)
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Bernard is surprisingly mild mannered but has previous on Mission fans, and playing in Berlin and Edinburgh in the 80s for some reason.

Hooky doesn't like anyone apart from The Light & the Hacienda Classical Orchestra.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Debaser  
#5 Posted : 14 October 2021 10:17:37(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: tapebias Go to Quoted Post
Bernard is surprisingly mild mannered but has previous on Mission fans, and playing in Berlin and Edinburgh in the 80s for some reason.

Well If we're talking about places, Bernard did once say at a gig in Dublin "shit country you've got here", or words to that effect ('86?).
Didn't stop them recording half of Brotherhood at Windmill Lane studios though. I sometimes wonder if they did so for tax reasons.
Artists don't have to pay income tax in Ireland ("the land of saints and scholars"), which is why people like Lisa Stansfield ended up moving to Dublin in the early 90s. I thought this tax exemption had gone or been changed, but it still appears to exist in some shape or form according to this.

As for Berlin, Bernard was quite positive about the place here.


Originally Posted by: tapebias Go to Quoted Post
Hooky doesn't like anyone apart from The Light & the Hacienda Classical Orchestra.


A little harsh. He likes Damon/Gorillaz. I think he used to drink with Alex James in the Groucho too. Arthur Baker is still friends with him as per that recent interview. Hooky said in one of his Lockdown Instagram chats that he would see other artists as the competition back in the '80s, but since then, whenever he has met any of the "competition" he has usually found them quite likable.

Going off topic a bit, anyone remember It Bites who had a hit with Calling All The Heroes back in the 80s? I remember they did one of those interviews where you get asked: Best actor, Worst actor, Best band, Worst band etc. And their singer gave New Order for worst band. He's probably long since forgotten the interview, but I'm still holding a fan-grudge!

EDIT:
Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
They never did socialize much or tour with other bands, prior to 1987, did they?

They socialised with Wham! when both acts were in the US at the same time in the 80s (same label - Warners). And when George died, Hooky said this:

Edited by user 14 October 2021 14:54:48(UTC)  | Reason: Wham! - rephrase

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
50poundnote  
#6 Posted : 14 October 2021 14:07:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
With Wham! on tour in the US in the 80s (same label - Warners).


WHAT?

Wham's tours - including opening acts - are all documented online, and New Order was not one of them. Where did you hear that?
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Debaser  
#7 Posted : 14 October 2021 14:46:07(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
With Wham! on tour in the US in the 80s (same label - Warners).


WHAT?

Wham's tours - including opening acts - are all documented online, and New Order was not one of them. Where did you hear that?


I didn't mean they were on tour together. I meant both acts were in the states separately and met/partied at Warners events.
See here about nine lines down.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Fotz  
#8 Posted : 14 October 2021 16:05:34(UTC)
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Off the top of me head, the only time i can remember Bernard slagging or dissing someone was that clip when he said that stuff about Bongo in that BBC clip in late 80s.Not sure he holds a grudge against him though, certainly doubt Bernard holding a grudge against anyone, unlike Hook (who also slagged off U2 a bit back in the day but though these days is quite respectful of 'em to be fair).Oh and Bernard , or was it Hook?, that slagged off Green Day before they played Warsaw at the Brixton Academy gig in 2005? I was at that gig and Bernard said something about "shit bands like Green Day" trying to rip off songs like Warsaw but doing it very badly.Again though, that's just dissing another artist at a point in time and not necessarily meaning it's holding a lifelong grudge.


Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post


Going off topic a bit, anyone remember It Bites who had a hit with Calling All The Heroes back in the 80s? I remember they did one of those interviews where you get asked: Best actor, Worst actor, Best band, Worst band etc. And their singer gave New Order for worst band. He's probably long since forgotten the interview, but I'm still holding a fan-grudge!




I do remember that It Bites song and that bit the singer said rings a very vague bell.I might have seen it at the time, yeah.I used to interpret people slagging off New Order as just pure & simple jealousy.Or when they said New Order were crap i took it as them meaning they were crap and chaotic musicians which always amused me as that was one of the many reasons i liked them.

Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

Not sure if he bitches about anyone in his book (which I have still yet to read) though.




Excuse me???!!! You've never read Bernard's autobiography? No way! I find that bizarre.How can anyone have a lifelong obsession with New Order and not want to read Bernard's book? Mind you. i've still not listened to that Revenge Gun World Porn EP to be fairLaugh






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negative1 on 14/10/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
50poundnote  
#9 Posted : 14 October 2021 16:40:51(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
I didn't mean they were on tour together. I meant both acts were in the states separately and met/partied at Warners events.


Ah! Thanks, I misunderstood.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
LostSiren  
#10 Posted : 14 October 2021 17:01:22(UTC)
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U2 actually thanked Hooky in the liner notes of one of their later albums- No line on the horizon, i think - one of the post Sirens Call albums anyway.

Didn't Hooky feel The Cure ripped off his style?
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#11 Posted : 14 October 2021 23:40:38(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post


Excuse me???!!! You've never read Bernard's autobiography? No way! I find that bizarre.How can anyone have a lifelong obsession with New Order and not want to read Bernard's book? Mind you. i've still not listened to that Revenge Gun World Porn EP to be fairLaugh




Yeah, I know. Crazy, eh? 😀

It’s in my pile of things to do. I’ve got a handful of other New Order books I still need to read as well.

I think I’ve been put off somewhat by everyone saying it’s tremendously dull.
It would likely take me several nights to get through it, and for probably very little enjoyment.

Now ‘Gun World Porn’? That would take you 20 minutes! No excuses. 😉

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Fotz  
#12 Posted : 15 October 2021 02:56:20(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post


Excuse me???!!! You've never read Bernard's autobiography? No way! I find that bizarre.How can anyone have a lifelong obsession with New Order and not want to read Bernard's book? Mind you. i've still not listened to that Revenge Gun World Porn EP to be fairLaugh




Yeah, I know. Crazy, eh? 😀

It’s in my pile of things to do. I’ve got a handful of other New Order books I still need to read as well.

I think I’ve been put off somewhat by everyone saying it’s tremendously dull.
It would likely take me several nights to get through it, and for probably very little enjoyment.

Now ‘Gun World Porn’? That would take you 20 minutes! No excuses. 😉




It’s about 7 years now (7???!!! FFS!) since I read it. Think it was 2014 it was published. Strangely , I remember feeling a bit dazed and spaced out a lot while reading it. Maybe it was a bit dull and resulted in me feeling a bit spaced out but I had to see what Bernard had to say , hear his side of the story.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#13 Posted : 15 October 2021 04:13:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
hear his side of the story.


Agreed, in theory. I think this is partly why I haven't read it. From all accounts, he barely touches on important stuff. The creative process etc.
He also skips over huge chunks of history, apparently.

I'll get around to it. It's just fairly low priority at the moment.

I've read most of the JD/NO texts. Hook and Morris' JD & NO ones, Torn Apart, the Jon Savage one and the Butterworth book, amongst many others. But there are other NO related ones I will probably go through before Sumner's book.
For instance, I started 'Shadowplayers' a little while back and I really need to get through that first. My, my, that's a weighty tome. It's going to take a while to read all of that.




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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Fotz  
#14 Posted : 15 October 2021 06:59:14(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
hear his side of the story.


Agreed, in theory. I think this is partly why I haven't read it. From all accounts, he barely touches on important stuff. The creative process etc.
He also skips over huge chunks of history, apparently.

I'll get around to it. It's just fairly low priority at the moment.

I've read most of the JD/NO texts. Hook and Morris' JD & NO ones, Torn Apart, the Jon Savage one and the Butterworth book, amongst many others. But there are other NO related ones I will probably go through before Sumner's book.
For instance, I started 'Shadowplayers' a little while back and I really need to get through that first. My, my, that's a weighty tome. It's going to take a while to read all of that.






Just pulled it from the shelf just now and had a quick scan through to jog my memory. It’s not that dull at all IMHO. He does skip a few things yes and there’s no detail or not much detail about the writing and recording processes of the music but there’s some really interesting tales and also at the end there’s a transcript of his recording of when he hypnotised Ian Curtis.

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Debaser  
#15 Posted : 15 October 2021 08:10:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Oh and Bernard , or was it Hook?, that slagged off Green Day before they played Warsaw at the Brixton Academy gig in 2005? I was at that gig and Bernard said something about "shit bands like Green Day" trying to rip off songs like Warsaw but doing it very badly.Again though, that's just dissing another artist at a point in time and not necessarily meaning it's holding a lifelong grudge.


Hooky had mentioned in at least one interview that he went to see Green Day with young Jack. He didn't like them much but was impressed with the way they'd get audience members on stage to play each of their instruments. And yes, I vaguely remember Bernard mentioning Green Day in sweary terms at that gig, I'm guessing Bernard and Hooky had discussed them. In fact, here you go: Bernard at 1Hr,31mins,01sec.


What a gig!

Whilst I'm being generous with Youtube clips. Here's Gun World Porn

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#16 Posted : 15 October 2021 08:42:54(UTC)
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Some mellow with age. I read a recent Ian McCulloch interview where he admitted being too hard on U2/Bono over the years (he had never been shy about slagging them in the past). He even praised One as among the best ever written. Can you imagine the Mac the Mouth of the past saying something like that about a song he himself hadn't written?

DailyRecord.co.uk

Edited by user 15 October 2021 08:45:30(UTC)  | Reason: Included link

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Fotz  
#17 Posted : 15 October 2021 12:00:20(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Oh and Bernard , or was it Hook?, that slagged off Green Day before they played Warsaw at the Brixton Academy gig in 2005? I was at that gig and Bernard said something about "shit bands like Green Day" trying to rip off songs like Warsaw but doing it very badly.Again though, that's just dissing another artist at a point in time and not necessarily meaning it's holding a lifelong grudge.


Hooky had mentioned in at least one interview that he went to see Green Day with young Jack. He didn't like them much but was impressed with the way they'd get audience members on stage to play each of their instruments. And yes, I vaguely remember Bernard mentioning Green Day in sweary terms at that gig, I'm guessing Bernard and Hooky had discussed them. In fact, here you go: Bernard at 1Hr,31mins,01sec.


Hey that's my own YT upload! Forgotten about that one


Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post


Whilst I'm being generous with Youtube clips. Here's Gun World Porn



Well, i finally listened.Now that's 34 minutes of my life i'll never get back.Or at a push 25 minutes i'll never get back as the last 9 minutes were more bearable, the last 2 tracks were ok ish.Are they 2 remixes of State Of Shock or something? They were ok but i'd still never listen again.The rest was just awful.Creatively bankrupt and i have an intense hatred for Hook's lyrics and vocal.

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Rorschach on 16/10/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
spooky  
#18 Posted : 15 October 2021 20:12:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post

Just pulled it from the shelf just now and had a quick scan through to jog my memory. It’s not that dull at all IMHO. He does skip a few things yes and there’s no detail or not much detail about the writing and recording processes of the music but there’s some really interesting tales and also at the end there’s a transcript of his recording of when he hypnotised Ian Curtis.





how much does Barney write about his Electronic days? does he go into detail about working with the PSB's?
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#19 Posted : 16 October 2021 02:15:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: LostSiren Go to Quoted Post
So, seeing as Paul McCartney felt the need to diss the Rolling Stones in an interview


Of course he's gonna say they were better. What do you expect him to say? 'Boy, we SUCK! Been listening to the new Get Back release and it is total and utter f..king shit. Been working on it for months and it's still shit. Do yourself and favour and don't buy it. It's so shit. I think there's a new Coldplay album coming out. Buy that instead, they piss all over us. We are shit.'
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Fotz  
#20 Posted : 16 October 2021 19:51:58(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: spooky Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post

Just pulled it from the shelf just now and had a quick scan through to jog my memory. It’s not that dull at all IMHO. He does skip a few things yes and there’s no detail or not much detail about the writing and recording processes of the music but there’s some really interesting tales and also at the end there’s a transcript of his recording of when he hypnotised Ian Curtis.





how much does Barney write about his Electronic days? does he go into detail about working with the PSB's?


Without reading completely through the book again I’m not entirely sure but flicking through , Bernard does seem to write about Electronic quite a lot and how it all came together with Johnny Marr and the PSB collaborations and the writing and recording.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#21 Posted : 16 October 2021 23:01:44(UTC)
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Didn't bother with the Barnster's bio cos I heard it was superficial and vague. Also I'm not too fussed about muso bios cos they don't always give much insight (teehee) into the actual art, unlike, say, Ingmar Bergman. It's different with the Beatles cos I'm an obsessive and there's always something new to discover.
There's not much Electronic lit and that also goes for Marred Johnny's buke.
Well Fotz, if that's your opinion of GWP, you must really hate the early stuff. It's strange... When I was younger, I thought Revenge were shit. But I revisited them and now I know they were shit.

Edited by user 16 October 2021 23:02:32(UTC)  | Reason: Two Become One

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Fotz  
#22 Posted : 17 October 2021 00:11:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
.
Well Fotz, if that's your opinion of GWP, you must really hate the early stuff. It's strange... When I was younger, I thought Revenge were shit. But I revisited them and now I know they were shit.


Just looked and i do actually have a few Revenge CD singles.I have the CDs of 7 Reasons, Slave and Pineapple Face.I think i did quite like 7 Reasons for a couple of weeks back in 1989 but don't think i'd chuck it on now to see how it holds up these days.Vaguely recall some of the mixes on the Slave CD single being quite good and i do remember really liking Amsterdam on that CD, think it was a cover of a John Cale song? Might stick that on later.On the Pineapple Face CD single i note looking just now that it has 14K (Full Version), now that track i recall being pretty bloody great and reminds that a Dutch girl went by the moniker 14K on the old NOOL forum back in the 2000s and really was a very funny, sweet person who always made very funny, interesting, informative and endearing posts .Wonder where she is now.I think she also used to go to great trouble to send New Order related items like tees and stuff to people here in UK .So she was very generous of her time and energy.

I have the One True Passion on cassette but doubt i'll revisit it anytime soon

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#23 Posted : 17 October 2021 00:26:10(UTC)
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7 Reasons and It's Quiet are okay cos they're focussed - same goes for Amsterdam, but it's a Cale cover. The rest is sprawling, messy and total shit. Slave had some better mixes (as did Pineapple Face), but they chose that silly (c)rap one for the single. Even Paul Lester, part of that ludicrous 'up there with the Beatles and the Stones' bullshit, didn't advance on 'patchy'.
What's the difference between rap and trap? The letter t.
Slightly off-topic but I reread Cunter Davies' Bestles bio for the first time since I was 14 and I couldn't believe how vague it gets. It's great up until 1965 and then he just skims over the rest, Whole albums aren't even mentioned and as for the tours, he actually writes, 'You can find the details in the papers if you're mad enough.' Sorry, isn't that his job? Philip Norman's Shout is far more engaing, though a lot of the fact has been questioned.
Found Hooky's NO bio on PDF (ain't shelling out for that twat) and I gave up after about ten pages. Too much testosterone. But what was I expecting, Sylvia Plath?
Apparently Gillian's writing a bio too. I'm gonna resist comment.

Edited by user 17 October 2021 00:28:04(UTC)  | Reason: Say You Will Be There

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Fotz  
#24 Posted : 17 October 2021 01:08:53(UTC)
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Just gave 14K a spin and it was awful. I must have got it mixed it up with something else or a remix of it, is there a remix of it? Onto the Slave CD single now
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#25 Posted : 17 October 2021 01:44:18(UTC)
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If you're still alive afterwards, let me know how it went.
Freud said that when you undergo trauma, the brain removes it because the memory would drive you to madness or suicide. That's why I can't remember Revenge.
Come on, Perspexorange (do remember the comma in that sentence). You know you want to.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
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