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negative1  
#1 Posted : 10 January 2021 17:23:37(UTC)
negative1

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i've been listening to the writing sessions versions
of the album tracks, and have been making notes of
the differences in them.

most of them dont have vocals.

anyways, looking through the tracks

No. Title Length

1. "Age of Consent" 5:16
2. "We All Stand" 5:14
3. "The Village" 4:37
4. "5 8 6" 7:31 -> instrumental parts

Side two
No. Title Length
1. "Your Silent Face" 6:00
2. "Ultraviolence" 4:52
3. "Ecstasy" 4:25 -> mostly instrumental
4. "Leave Me Alone" 4:40


there is no session or take on 'ultraviolence' though.

there is quite a difference in many of the tracks
in instruments, tempo and key.
========================================
Definitive Edition bonus tracks
No. Title Length

1. "Age of Consent" (Writing Session Recordings) 4:40
2. "The Village" (Writing Session Recordings) 3:14
3. "5 8 6" (Writing Session Recordings) 3:25
4. "Your Silent Face" (Writing Session Recordings) 5:02
5. "Ecstasy" (Writing Session Recordings) 4:25
6. "Leave Me Alone" (Writing Session Recordings) 4:09
8. "We All Stand" (John Peel Session) 5:25

10. "5 8 6" (John Peel Session) 6:08

12. "Thieves Like Us" (New York Demo #1, 1983) 6:42
13. "Thieves Like Us" (1983 Writing Session Recordings) 2:00
14. "Murder" (Writing Session Recordings) 3:41

15. "Blue Monday" (Writing Session Recordings) 2:10
16. "Blue Monday" (1982 Writing Session Recordings) 5:50
17. "Blue Monday" (Instrumental Outtake; Album Session Recording) 7:19



1 age of consent

this is a shorter more basic version of the track

Age of Consent (Writing Session Recordings) 4:40 146.7 bpm
album version "Age of Consent" 5:16 162.0 bpm

there is a HUGE difference in tempo,
the final version is one of the fastest tracks for new order.

the writing session is much slower.


for comparison, we don't have any other takes on the album version,
but here is a recreated album instrumental version (some vocal artifacts in there),
and not cleaned up:

01 new order - age of consent (album instrumental)

youtube (might be blocked):

alternate:
https://sowndhaus.audio/...onsentalbum-instrumental

==================================
you can hear the synth segments, and the guitars more prominently


i thought about comparing the album version to the session, but its
too hard with the tempo difference, and vocals.

so i tried to match the vocals to the slower session version,
and it sounds very rough, the vocals don't line up properly,
and needed adjustment for the phrases.

UserPostedImage

i also tried to see what the song would be like
if they were just trying out the bass and drum parts.

01 new order - age of consent (drum bass album dub)
=====================================================
this is kind of a minimal dub, with mostly bass and drums, pre guitars,synth

youtube (might be blocked):


alternate:
https://sowndhaus.audio/...-of-consentdrum-bass-dub


here's what a rough demo version with vocals could have sounded like,
now since we're using the album vocals, they are much cleaner sounding
than a rough take, and i'm guessing wildly where they would have come in.

here's a rough picture of the adjustments made to all the vocal phrasing,
as it had to be slowed down, and adjusted for the different phrases.



01 new order - age of consent (rough demo with vocals approximation)
==============================================================================
youtube (might be blocked):


alternate:
https://sowndhaus.audio/...age-of-consentvocal-demo

anyways, i think it sounds interesting with it might have sounded
like if they had added some vocals too it.

obviously they had to retool the song, and completely revamp the
instruments and pace. and bernard had to sing much faster.

i plan on looking at the other songs too.

later
-1

Edited by user 18 January 2021 13:24:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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prog99 on 10/01/2021(UTC), perspexorange on 11/01/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 12/01/2021(UTC), Like No Other on 12/01/2021(UTC), Mr. Disco on 07/02/2021(UTC)
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Fractured  
#2 Posted : 12 January 2021 22:43:43(UTC)
Fractured

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Very neat stuff. What software did you use?
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negative1 on 13/01/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 20/01/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#3 Posted : 13 January 2021 03:34:38(UTC)
negative1

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Originally Posted by: Fractured Go to Quoted Post
Very neat stuff. What software did you use?



lots of different ones:
sound forge 6.0
izotope rx8
mixmeister 3.0
audacity 2.x

later
-1
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ROCKET MICK on 20/01/2021(UTC)
Fractured  
#4 Posted : 13 January 2021 13:02:52(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: negative1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fractured Go to Quoted Post
Very neat stuff. What software did you use?



lots of different ones:
sound forge 6.0
izotope rx8
mixmeister 3.0
audacity 2.x

later
-1


Wow! Which is best at isolating individual instruments/voices?

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ROCKET MICK on 20/01/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#5 Posted : 13 January 2021 13:59:55(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fractured Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: negative1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fractured Go to Quoted Post
Very neat stuff. What software did you use?



lots of different ones:
sound forge 6.0
izotope rx8
mixmeister 3.0
audacity 2.x

later
-1


Wow! Which is best at isolating individual instruments/voices?



izotope rx8, but you will have to use a lot of other software too.

there are lots of plugins and online libraries, open-source programs,
stems splitters, and then you have to go in manually to clean up the
artifacts, etc. there's lots of tutorials on youtube.

later
-1


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ROCKET MICK on 20/01/2021(UTC)
Fractured  
#6 Posted : 13 January 2021 14:35:24(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: negative1 Go to Quoted Post

izotope rx8, but you will have to use a lot of other software too.

there are lots of plugins and online libraries, open-source programs,
stems splitters, and then you have to go in manually to clean up the
artifacts, etc. there's lots of tutorials on youtube.

later
-1



Thanks, found it: https://www.izotope.com/en/shop/rx-8-standard.html

I'd be particularly interested in programs that can create stems (Izotope looks like it has many additional bells and whistles). I'll see what comes well-recommended!
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ROCKET MICK on 20/01/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#7 Posted : 13 January 2021 15:07:03(UTC)
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next up is we all stand,

a rather slower paced song.

again, made an album instrumental verison of it..
removed most of the vocals, except in a few parts:
==================================================
(might be blocked)



here's a more drum, bass, dub of the stripped down song,
with more of bernards singing highlighted.
================================================
(might be blocked)


and the we all stand peel session already has
vocals, so lets try to remove those from them.
===============================================
(might be blocked)


and finally, here's a very stripped down peel
sessions versions, focusing on mostly the vocals
with basic instruments. mostly acoustic.
================================================
(might be blocked)

a lot of emotion in the song.

NOTE : Will also be updating blog posts here:
https://surfaceremix.wor...nstrumentals-and-vocals/

later
-1

Edited by user 13 January 2021 23:07:47(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 20/01/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#8 Posted : 16 January 2021 15:47:47(UTC)
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the 3rd track on the album is the village,


here we have an instrumental session version.

village (album version) 131.5 bpm 4:37
village (session version) 128.8 bpm 3:14

so here, they are a little closer in tempo.

however, its much shorter, by about 1 minute and a half.

there's a long instrumental section in the final version
which makes up the difference.

here's a picture showing the differences, and all the
vocal edits:
=======================================================
UserPostedImage


i've attempted to add the vocals back into the session version.

the last verse is crammed in pretty close to the end because
there's not a break there.

the session vocal ends cold though.

unlike the album version which gets cut off, and
goes straight into 586


village (session vocal)
=========================


for comparison, here's the instrumental album version:


and album dub:






later
-1
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ROCKET MICK on 20/01/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#9 Posted : 18 January 2021 13:58:33(UTC)
negative1

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586 is a breakthrough song for new order,

its the precursor to blue monday, and although prime 568 was
the true source and experiment, we also have ecstasy with
more vocoder work on it too.


there's the writing session instrumental version, which is short
and rough, but matches up with the album bpm. 3min:20sec

then we have the album version, and an awesome kraftwerkian peel session
version, which to me is a good as a remix as you will get of it.

there are modern remixes of it to, but anyways.

here some interesting versions.

the album instrumental:



the album dub:



and here's taking the writing session version, and adding the
vocals to that.


===================================


for the peel session version, heres the instrumental:


and the dub:



here are the edit for this new vocals:
UserPostedImage

and what it would have sounded like with the studio vocals overlaid:



later
-1

Edited by user 18 January 2021 13:59:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 20/01/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#10 Posted : 20 January 2021 18:44:15(UTC)
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your silent face is a lot rougher, and a minute shorter,
but is the same tempo. so the vocals match.

the album version has a lot of majestic synths in it
that stand out.

its a very slow paced song, almost a ballad,
that gets thrown off by the vocals (especially at the end).

funny bernard.

first : album instrumental:


album dub:



its missing a lot of the synth layers.

here's a look at adding the main two vocal sections back to the song.
UserPostedImage


heres the writing session with album vocals added:





later
-1
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ROCKET MICK on 21/01/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#11 Posted : 23 January 2021 12:21:57(UTC)
negative1

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ecstasy is the other instrumental track,
this one is heavy on the vocoder,
and is a nice upbeat instrumental.


so taking ecstasy+586 = blue monday, or the beach

so i took some of the samples of out, and made
some dubs:


a more minimal sound with bass
ecstasy (dub1):


a more synth sound
ecstasy (dub2):







the writing session version is slightly slower than
the album one, so i sped it up a little bit and
added the vocoder parts back into it.

its more guitar oriented too.

UserPostedImage


they're off in timing, but who knows where they
would have ended up.

ecstasy (recording session vocoder)


later
-1
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#12 Posted : 24 January 2021 22:16:32(UTC)
negative1

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the final track is leave me alone, which is fitting
for the album.


here's an instrumental:

and a minimal version of it:


here's a picture of the adjustments made to the
vocals, and pitch change.
UserPostedImage

and for the recording session version with vocals:



later
-1
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
GotBlueEyes  
#13 Posted : 25 January 2021 06:22:42(UTC)
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Really enjoyed all of these - a fascinating project, and must have been a lot of work for you.

Thanks!


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negative1 on 25/01/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#14 Posted : 25 January 2021 08:27:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GotBlueEyes Go to Quoted Post
Really enjoyed all of these - a fascinating project, and must have been a lot of work for you.

Thanks!




no problem, been meaning to dive into these tracks.

have a couple more to go. blue monday and thieves like us.

later
-1

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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#15 Posted : 26 January 2021 07:06:05(UTC)
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the blue monday writing session is interesting, because of the different synths used in it,

it's basically the same structure, and the vocals fit into it pretty well:

new order - writing session vocal:



and the instrumental outtake is basically the beach, with some minor differences,
but i incorporated the vocals into it also.

the bpm and tempo matched up pretty well.

the writing session is much shorter, and the outtake is almost exactly as long as the beach.


here are some comparison pictures:
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage


later
-1
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC), contrique on 25/02/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#16 Posted : 28 January 2021 00:27:34(UTC)
negative1

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thieves like us,

theres a really short snippet, and a longer
new york session.

this version is slower than the normal single
version. so it had to be sped up for the vocals
to match.


there is a dub version:

and a very similar but short instrumental
derived from it, which matches the official
version up to the 2 minute mark, and then
is slightly editted until the 5 minute mark:

and finally a synth version:


so the new york session with vocals edits:
here's the vocals added into:
UserPostedImage


sounds like this approximately:


hope you enjoyed all the comparisons.

might work on some more in the future.

later
-1
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
ROCKET MICK  
#17 Posted : 11 February 2021 10:58:23(UTC)
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SUPERB work Negative ONE....Cool
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perspexorange on 11/02/2021(UTC), negative1 on 11/02/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#18 Posted : 11 February 2021 17:04:32(UTC)
negative1

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Originally Posted by: ROCKET MICK Go to Quoted Post
SUPERB work Negative ONE....Cool


sure, no problem.

it was a good way for me to go over the recording sessions tracks.

most people don't care, and skip over them, but i find them fascinating.

i know people will never comment about them, but that's how things go with these
in depth looks.

maybe 1 person besides me might care.

later
-1
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ROCKET MICK on 12/02/2021(UTC)
contrique  
#19 Posted : 25 February 2021 21:22:22(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: negative1 Go to Quoted Post

and the instrumental outtake is basically the beach, with some minor differences,
but i incorporated the vocals into it also.

later
-1



Great stuff -1, thanks!
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negative1 on 25/02/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 15/03/2021(UTC)
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