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Artificial Flavoring  
#101 Posted : 02 February 2021 15:45:50(UTC)
Artificial Flavoring

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Originally Posted by: Mr. Disco Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
As regards bits edited out of Stephen's book, I wonder if the details of how he upset Bernard (alluded to in the book) were excised.

This 'falling out' appears to have happened around the time of the first O2 LP ('93-94), and was following something mentioned in an interview with Steve. I keep meaning to read the O2 interviews from this period in my cuttings collection to try and work out exactly what upset him.
I doubt, considering Steve's pleasant nature, it was anything too bad.

Probably something along the lines of 'if the others would get their thumbs out of their bum, we'd record another LP' or similar.
I can't see Steve slagging off Bernard somehow.

According to Hooky's book, The Other Two claimed in an interview they'd written most of Republic, or at least its early incarnation that was mostly dismissed by Sumner and Hague, which Hooky himself confirms they did. Steve appears to say on his book he was only joking, perhaps in an attempt to make amends, but Barney took it really badly.


What interview was this anyway?

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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Artificial Flavoring  
#102 Posted : 02 February 2021 15:50:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cranelane Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
I don’t really get your point, Michael.

Also “Thirty years to come up with Night Voice”?
You’re not making any sense?

You seem to be harping on about The Other Two as if that project is acknowledged as Steve’s crowning achievement; the thing that defines him as an artist, rather than something the two of them did in their spare time whilst B&H couldn’t be arsed with New Order.

No one (fans, press or S&G themselves) are saying that it was the finest work they ever created. It was purely a vehicle for the two of them to release soundtracks that they’d been working on during ‘down time’.

There’s plenty of great stuff in the JD/NO canon that’s far more worthy of your attention.

It’s like me saying that Paul McCartney is a talentless shit, just because ‘Biker Like An Icon’ sucked big donkey balls. Whilst at the same time completely dismissing ‘Yesterday’, ‘Eleanor Rigby’, ‘Hey Jude’ etc.

(Incidentally, I’ve always found The Beatles somewhat overrated. Perhaps I should head over to their forums, to mock Macca and his shit side projects.)
Wings... only the band The Beatles could’ve been.


Instead of taking time out and working on side projects, which apart from Bernard's, were never going to set the world on fire, I think the Other Two & Hooky might have been better off if they had been given the opportunity to record their own best songs on New Order albums such as Republic, so in an alternative universe, Gillian would have sung lead one or two tracks on Republic, songs which would have been enhanced by the involvement of Bernard and Hooky, Hooky doing likewise, with Bernard, being the chief song writer, still retaining the mantle of lead singer, this is how The Beatles worked, with everybody getting a chance to bring their best tunes to whatever album was being worked on at the time.

If it worked for the Beatles it could have worked for our Fab Four.




This....right here. Perfectly said.

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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#103 Posted : 03 February 2021 04:32:07(UTC)
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Cum back, KIC. All is forgiven.
I've written this before, so keep reading at your own kissed, but I always had a theory Repubshit started as a 'proper' NO disco-guitar hybrid with Regret, Speckled and Everyone Everbare, but they fell out and lost interest and let Sumner and Hague take over. I can't offer any insight but it would tie in with comments from Hooky and Morpiss, and the fact they were the only ones to make the gigs, except the obligatory singles. The funny part is that at the time, Hooky told NME and John Peel he liked the album cos Hague had kept it classic New Order. Salesman talk?
He's wrong about the The Other Poo and Republic too. The album they tried to take credit for was Technique. I remember this being brought up several times, plus Gillian said she 'didn't like' Republic in an Other Two '''''interview'''''. More to the point, who in their right mind would want to take more than their fair share of responsiblity for that pile of shit?

Edited by user 03 February 2021 04:34:44(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Artificial Flavoring  
#104 Posted : 03 February 2021 05:22:24(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
Cum back, KIC. All is forgiven.
I've written this before, so keep reading at your own kissed, but I always had a theory Repubshit started as a 'proper' NO disco-guitar hybrid with Regret, Speckled and Everyone Everbare, but they fell out and lost interest and let Sumner and Hague take over. I can't offer any insight but it would tie in with comments from Hooky and Morpiss, and the fact they were the only ones to make the gigs, except the obligatory singles. The funny part is that at the time, Hooky told NME and John Peel he liked the album cos Hague had kept it classic New Order. Salesman talk?
He's wrong about the The Other Poo and Republic too. The album they tried to take credit for was Technique. I remember this being brought up several times, plus Gillian said she 'didn't like' Republic in an Other Two '''''interview'''''. More to the point, who in their right mind would want to take more than their fair share of responsiblity for that pile of shit?



Technique??? No, everybody says it was Republic.
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
tapebias  
#105 Posted : 03 February 2021 05:34:44(UTC)
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I agree I can't see why anyone would want to take credit for Republic. I finally exorcised my Republic LP from my life last year for £30+. Poor album although Regret and Special are 5/5, the rest is mostly drug addled mush.

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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#106 Posted : 03 February 2021 05:45:43(UTC)
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You paid them that much?
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
GotBlueEyes  
#107 Posted : 03 February 2021 05:47:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post


Secondly, during 'Republic', Stephen Hague had got a session drummer in to play the 'real drums' on the LP. This was a revelation and, again, is pretty shoddy treatment.


Certainly beyond what you'd expect from a band that always seemed to pride itself on authenticity and ethics.

But at least Andy Duncan got a credit. He was drafted in to re-record every drum track on the first Duran Duran album and didn't even get a credit (maybe he insisted on it though Big Grin )
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
tapebias  
#108 Posted : 03 February 2021 05:52:37(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
You paid them that much?


It was worth every penny. Had to give State of the Nation and Shellshock 12"s to charity shop for free though. More drug addled shite.




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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#109 Posted : 03 February 2021 06:04:22(UTC)
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I once tried to fob a Revenge white label off to a second hand record shop and they refused. So I took it to Oxfam and they fucking refused at first too.
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Mr. Disco  
#110 Posted : 03 February 2021 06:13:49(UTC)
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It wasn't like they wanted credit for the actual released Republic album, was it?
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Coops  
#111 Posted : 03 February 2021 06:14:00(UTC)
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Since when was 'drug addled' used as a negative?Laugh Boring bastards.
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#112 Posted : 03 February 2021 06:39:06(UTC)
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There's nothing druggy or gloriously fucked up about Republic. Dull.
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
themightyspang  
#113 Posted : 04 February 2021 01:52:44(UTC)
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listening to teh audiobook this morning, got to the bit about get ready/dublin/being told off for not being comitted, with all that family shit going on.

they are lucky steve is so easy going. I'd have maimed them for that. didn't know anything about andy but well, hope never to meet him and hooky can fuck right off with that one. unbelievable. could you imagine that the other way round? they just knew they could bully him.

yes nobody is perfect and we have to split the art from the artist but I don't think I'll ever be able to respect Hooky after that. He had kids surely he would be able to empathise?

and christ is that troll still here? fair play he's put years of work into it.

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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#114 Posted : 04 February 2021 02:01:32(UTC)
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Hooky forfeited his right to respect years ago. After his comments on Gillian the only reason he has any fans left is that the Light gigs are such good value for money. Getting bored of those too now.
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#115 Posted : 04 February 2021 09:06:04(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: SeasoningPacket Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cranelane Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
I don’t really get your point, Michael.

Also “Thirty years to come up with Night Voice”?
You’re not making any sense?

You seem to be harping on about The Other Two as if that project is acknowledged as Steve’s crowning achievement; the thing that defines him as an artist, rather than something the two of them did in their spare time whilst B&H couldn’t be arsed with New Order.

No one (fans, press or S&G themselves) are saying that it was the finest work they ever created. It was purely a vehicle for the two of them to release soundtracks that they’d been working on during ‘down time’.

There’s plenty of great stuff in the JD/NO canon that’s far more worthy of your attention.

It’s like me saying that Paul McCartney is a talentless shit, just because ‘Biker Like An Icon’ sucked big donkey balls. Whilst at the same time completely dismissing ‘Yesterday’, ‘Eleanor Rigby’, ‘Hey Jude’ etc.

(Incidentally, I’ve always found The Beatles somewhat overrated. Perhaps I should head over to their forums, to mock Macca and his shit side projects.)
Wings... only the band The Beatles could’ve been.


Instead of taking time out and working on side projects, which apart from Bernard's, were never going to set the world on fire, I think the Other Two & Hooky might have been better off if they had been given the opportunity to record their own best songs on New Order albums such as Republic, so in an alternative universe, Gillian would have sung lead one or two tracks on Republic, songs which would have been enhanced by the involvement of Bernard and Hooky, Hooky doing likewise, with Bernard, being the chief song writer, still retaining the mantle of lead singer, this is how The Beatles worked, with everybody getting a chance to bring their best tunes to whatever album was being worked on at the time.

If it worked for the Beatles it could have worked for our Fab Four.




This....right here. Perfectly said.



Yet Gillian did sing lead on one track...

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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
50poundnote  
#116 Posted : 04 February 2021 09:26:28(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Yet Gillian did sing lead on one track...


Well spotted, sir! LoL

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Andy on 04/02/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#117 Posted : 04 February 2021 09:52:12(UTC)
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So whilst we're on the subject of Gillian's vocals, we all know that she featured on 'Avalanche' (lead), 'Doubts Even Here' (spoken word segment) and 'Procession' (backing vocals).

Any others?

Over the last few years, I've become convinced that she sang some of the backing vocals to 'Shellshock'.
Hear me out, here. I'm not talking all of the backing vocals (some bits certainly sound like another woman).

There's just one line that really sounds like Gillian to me. The line says 'That's the way' and you can probably hear it best at 3:00ish on 'Shelllcock' (rather than 'Shellshock'). Give it a listen.

It certainly sounds like a different woman than some of the other backing vocals.


Oh, and just a shameless plug for one of my YouTube videos here, for those who've never seen it.
For those that have, just ignore me (and 'tut' about my bare-faced cheek).

Gillian's lyrics for 'Doubts Even Here':




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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Mr. Disco  
#118 Posted : 04 February 2021 10:04:34(UTC)
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She also did Everything's Gone Green, and I'm still not inclined to believe she didn't do Someone Like You...

Edited by user 04 February 2021 10:13:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#119 Posted : 04 February 2021 10:04:39(UTC)
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I can't really comment (something people say before they comment), but I'm not convinced Gillian is on Shelldick. It just doesn't sound her style. Plus Robie was a womaniser and used to chat up girls in discos by promising them a bit on his next single. Bunga bunga.
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#120 Posted : 04 February 2021 10:15:32(UTC)
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Possibly also Gillian singing the high "why can't you see, what you mean to me" backing bits dotted about in the original Confusion mixes?
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#121 Posted : 04 February 2021 10:41:27(UTC)
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I doubt it.
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#122 Posted : 04 February 2021 11:14:46(UTC)
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Thanks for the replies, folks.

I don't generally notice those female backing vocals on 'Everything's Gone Green', so have never considered this as a possibility. Is this for definite?

I wonder whether I ought to tweet Steve to see if her handiwork is anywhere else. He's reasonably likely to respond.



Considering that Gillian does have a very nice singing voice, I'm sometimes surprised that her vocals weren't heard a little more often on the band's tracks,, at least in the background..

It was interesting / surprising to read in Steve's recent book that Bernard was vehemently against her singing on tracks. I guess that's the reason we didn't hear more of her.
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Mr. Disco on 04/02/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Debaser  
#123 Posted : 04 February 2021 12:05:56(UTC)
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Gillian did backing vox on Restless. I vaguely remember her confirming this on twitter shortly after Music Complete's release.
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#124 Posted : 04 February 2021 12:14:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
Gillian did backing vox on Restless. I vaguely remember her confirming this on twitter shortly after Music Complete's release.


I didn't know that. Cheers!
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ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#125 Posted : 04 February 2021 23:07:37(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr. Disco Go to Quoted Post
She also did Everything's Gone Green, and I'm still not inclined to believe she didn't do Someone Like You...


I agree.

Everyone seems to insist it's Dawn Zee but I swear I hear Gillian in there. The music is certainly Other Twoish...
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negative1 on 05/02/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 11/02/2021(UTC)
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