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Michael Monkhouse  
#26 Posted : 29 March 2021 22:27:32(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse

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I can't believe it's not butter or that if you like New Order and want to criticise BS lyrics, you're starting with True Feces. There's Weirdo, Truth and everything the fucker's done since Technique.
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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#27 Posted : 30 March 2021 01:00:03(UTC)
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I totally agree with Michael and others here in that True Faith is one of the high points in Bernard’s lyrical output.

In 1987, when I was 15, I was into standard ‘rock’, which included bands like Rainbow (don’t laugh) amongst others.

So, I was used to hearing lyrics like this:

“I wanna love you all night long
I wanna be with you all night long”

Then I heard True Faith:

“I used to think that the day would never come
I'd see the light in the shade of the morning sun
My morning sun is the drug that brings me near
To the childhood I lost, replaced by fear
I used to think that the day would never come
That my life would depend on the morning sun”

To say that this song had a profound impact on my teenage life is a massive understatement.

I then started looking to other tracks and Blue Monday was one of the first:

“I see a ship in the harbour
I can and shall obey
But if it wasn't for your misfortune
I'd be a heavenly person today.”

Suddenly, I was faced with lyrics that I couldn’t interpret immediately; something that I’d have to think about.
This was very appealing to me.

Coupled with the band’s ‘non-image’ and reticence to do interviews, here was a group of individuals that seemed so bloody mysterious.
Compare them with most rock bands dressed head to toe in leather and/or spandex camping it up on TOTP, singing about how they want to make it with some centrefold.
Night and Day.

There were other examples of enigmatic lyrics, some a bit daft (“from my head to my toes, to my teeth, through my nose, you get these words wrong”) and some ridiculously simple (Oh you’ve got green eyes, oh you’ve got blue eyes, oh you’ve got grey eyes), but all still highly emotive.

I’ve often said that True Faith’s b-side, 1963, is the record that changed my music taste forever. When I finally heard it (on purchase of Substance), I couldn’t believe the beautiful melancholy of both the music and the lyrics.
From that day onwards, I was no longer a ‘rock’ fan. I wanted something ‘more’ and New Order, and Joy Division, gave me that.

All that being said, I will admit that, post 1990, Sumner’s lyrics haven’t been all that great (especially the ‘hey now, you’ll be fine’ type).
However, I will defend his 1980s lyrics with my last breath.
His words spoke more to me than any line from a Rainbow tune.
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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#28 Posted : 30 March 2021 02:55:40(UTC)
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Fuck, someone agrees with me.
I had a similar intro to the band in 1989 and fell in love with the enigmatic image and song lyrics cos I heard the best first: Round and Round, True Faith, Thieves like us (do they?). Sadly it was mostly downhill after that... In a similar vein, my first solo McCartney album was Band on the Run and I assumed it was typical of the quality. Wild Life was a breath of fecked hair.
I'm not convinced sincerity suffices for art though.
Melanie C
I want to be
With ye
In a tree
Listening to Let it Be
By the bea
Tles, you see.
Just ye and me.
Whoopee

Edited by user 30 March 2021 02:58:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
Coops  
#29 Posted : 30 March 2021 03:57:26(UTC)
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Blimey, there's a lot of over-thinking going on hereLaugh

Stray Dog's good and that's a new one, well, six years old now but it's as new as we're going to get for a while. And I think there's plenty of decent lyrics on Music Complete so maybe when Bernards happy he writes well and when he's not he just thinks "fuck it, that'll do, I'm going home".
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Rorschach on 30/03/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#30 Posted : 30 March 2021 05:39:13(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Coops Go to Quoted Post

Stray Dog's good and that's a new one, well, six years old now but it's as new as we're going to get for a while.


Yep - Stray Dog features some good lyrics, and that can be said for a lot of the songs on Music Complete.
A return to form, both musically and lyrically.

It's the Get Ready / WFTSC / Lost Sirens period where things went a bit screwy.
Although I'm not a massive fan of Republic, lyrically it wasn't that terrible (although there are a few lines lines that would certainly fall into that category).

Incidentally, I love Stray Dog and it is easily one of my favourites on Music Complete (along with Singularity and Academic).
It sounds like the natural successor to Murder, but with some added (pretty interesting) prose. Definitely far more intriguing lyrically than the typical 'you're ok, just stay with me, we'll be ok together' style of Sumner's later work.


Hmm, I now want to listen to Music Complete.
Let's hope we get at least one more LP out of the band.

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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#31 Posted : 30 March 2021 05:52:12(UTC)
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Yes. Let's!
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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
tapebias  
#32 Posted : 30 March 2021 08:34:50(UTC)
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Didn't they lock him in a room for True Faith/1963 and he didn't come out til he finished? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Might be worth trying again and the same goes with the music - deadlines!

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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
50poundnote  
#33 Posted : 30 March 2021 09:28:46(UTC)
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Apart from the occasional clunker, I hold Movement through Republic in high regard (some higher than others). I feel like the decline in lyrical quality coincides with Gillian's departure. Once it was "just the lads" and they indulged their worst rock impulses (Rock The Shack, Working Overtime) everything kinda sucked. Get Ready, WFTSC, and Lost Sirens are definitely ranked at the bottom for me. Things improved dramatically with Gillian's return and Music Complete.
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M1 on 30/03/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
M1  
#34 Posted : 30 March 2021 13:05:44(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Apart from the occasional clunker, I hold Movement through Republic in high regard (some higher than others). I feel like the decline in lyrical quality coincides with Gillian's departure. Once it was "just the lads" and they indulged their worst rock impulses (Rock The Shack, Working Overtime) everything kinda sucked. Get Ready, WFTSC, and Lost Sirens are definitely ranked at the bottom for me. Things improved dramatically with Gillian's return and Music Complete.


Agreed. Now, if we can only get a little more Gillian backing vox on there too...


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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
depthcharge  
#35 Posted : 30 March 2021 23:44:32(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: tapebias Go to Quoted Post
Didn't they lock him in a room for True Faith/1963 and he didn't come out til he finished? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Might be worth trying again and the same goes with the music - deadlines!



Reminds me of the time Johnny locked him in a room with a legal prescription and a pen.



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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
depthcharge  
#36 Posted : 31 March 2021 00:07:24(UTC)
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I loved NO's earlier-mid phase lyrics. Obtuse, interpretational, irreverent.

Coupled with Bernard's earnest, almost childlike vocals, they offset the cold, hard machinery of the music perfectly.

He flipped to a more "observational" style of lyric with age. You can see why - he could no longer pretend he wasn't an elder musical statesman, well-heeled and yachting around the Med between albums. Hard to keep playing the poor, unsettled, alienated youth card.

Unfortunately his observations on life aren't his strong suit and I find the lyrics of stuff like Krafty, Restless, Be A Rebel and so on pretty bland. "We all need an job", "There's more to life", "You can change if you want to" type stuff.

Or maybe it was just the drugs.
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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
is it bro  
#37 Posted : 31 March 2021 14:33:55(UTC)
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I think one of the biggest clunky lyrical lines of Barneys anything that rhymes will do, lazyitus repertoire is:

Dont wanna own a key, don’t wanna wash my car

I still cringe every time I play Turn my Way. A great song ruined by one line.

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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#38 Posted : 01 April 2021 01:50:09(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Apart from the occasional clunker, I hold Movement through Republic in high regard (some higher than others). I feel like the decline in lyrical quality coincides with Gillian's departure. Things improved dramatically with Gillian's return and Music Complete.


Gillian is their secret weapon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There's a common misconception that the plodding dadrock between Republic and Mucous Complete is due to losing Gillian (their secret weapon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). It sounds cool - blame men for everything - but it isn't borne out by the facts cos she was on Brutal and Get Ready (though not the tour). The only album she missed was Sirens/LS and I've no idea how much she contributed to MC, but I doubt it was more than the others. The others are their secret weapon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, there was a real change after Technique. Their approach became far more professional or bog standard, depending on your point of view. I read that one of the reasons they started repeated setlists in 89 was practical: travelling long distances meant they had to programme equipment in advance, and big US venues were less tolerant of their fucking around on stage.
And yeah, the Turd my Way lyrics are sub Andrew Dice Clay, despite the strong music. I could say that republic had strong lyrics but weak music, Get ready the opposite. Or I could shut the fuck up cos no one cares what anyone else thinks.
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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#39 Posted : 01 April 2021 04:27:57(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: depthcharge Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: tapebias Go to Quoted Post
Didn't they lock him in a room for True Faith/1963 and he didn't come out til he finished? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Might be worth trying again and the same goes with the music - deadlines!



Reminds me of the time Johnny locked him in a room with a legal prescription and a pen.





Try again? Not if it leads to another Raise the Pussy.
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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
The Shadow  
#40 Posted : 01 April 2021 13:16:31(UTC)
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Like everything new order lots of contradictions when it comes to lyrics.

I think movement to republic Bernard (and the others as they were involved up to technique) I think NO lyrics are underrated. Some songs may mean nothing at all but cut deep with the listener a 1000 islands in the sea...., others can be an oxymoron but still great, if you listen hard I will make you see, be genuinely funny and bring a smile, you look like a pig you should be in a zoo,
Be moving, this is a song about the innocent. Anthem like, up down turn around, mundane, maybe I’ve forgotten the name and the address.

After the factory years they have been mixed, smiles have been replaced with cringes (slow jam). Too much hey now, hey you , hey hey hey.....Personally I think get ready is a strong album but let down my lyrics although personally listening enjoyment is not ruined.

However I like Bernards observational lyrics on songs such as Restless, Krafty etc, MC definitely a return to better lyrics. In fact MC gets the balance right as when not much mean it is on tracks like tutti fruiti which is a full on dance track where lyrics are rarely required to be the focal point more ab96t the hook! Nice to see stray dog getting some deserved love.

NO have always been about the music and the lyrics are just a part and not the whole.
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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#41 Posted : 02 April 2021 00:21:40(UTC)
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I'd agree with most of the Shadow. The classic example is Primitive Notion, which would be up there with 24 Hours and Sunrise if the lyrics weren't so limp. Magic potion? What is this, Harry fucking Potter?
The lyrics to Leave me Alone are, like a lot of them, meaningless and meaningful at the same time. As I mentioned, Republic is better lyrically than musically, though some of the second side is fairly cringeworthy. Get Ready is musically tough but lyrically crud. You CAN buy honey with money. Is it just me or does Winnie the Pooh sound like a polite term for anal?
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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
Coops  
#42 Posted : 04 April 2021 12:15:27(UTC)
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Put a bit of Technique on earlier, goes well with the sunshine, thought I'd enjoy a bit of what many folk think of as Bernards best lyrics, you know, before he went a bit hey now hey nonny nonny. Fine Time. Teeth
.

Brilliant.
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ROCKET MICK on 10/05/2021(UTC)
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