logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages<12
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
depthcharge  
#26 Posted : 11 April 2016 05:57:41(UTC)
depthcharge

Rank: Member of the Republic

Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/02/2013(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: Australia

Thanks: 10 times
Was thanked: 261 time(s) in 171 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Hé Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
I opted for the CD Single: CDJapan

The mix better be good. It's going to cost me over $40 when all is said and done!


Strange description.
"new order" is not mentioned.


No tracklisting either.

When you read the description further it seems to be implying this is a "by request only" item.

You just wonder if someone's got their wires crossed with the 12". No other site seems to reference this CD release.

thanks 1 user thanked depthcharge for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 11/04/2016(UTC)
NotAMod  
#27 Posted : 12 April 2016 06:27:25(UTC)
NotAMod

Rank: Moderator

Groups: Moderators, Administrators, Registered
Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 626
Location: London, UK

Thanks: 159 times
Was thanked: 964 time(s) in 628 post(s)
I've not unsealed mine yet but what does the code stickered in the sleeve include access to?

Do you get just the two remixes or the full Tutti package? Hi-res files or standard? Is it available to those outside of Japan?

Cheers.
thanks 1 user thanked NotAMod for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 12/04/2016(UTC)
indiearchivist  
#28 Posted : 13 April 2016 10:46:08(UTC)
indiearchivist

Rank: Young Offender

Groups: Registered
Joined: 15/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 26

Was thanked: 29 time(s) in 26 post(s)
Originally Posted by: depthcharge Go to Quoted Post

No tracklisting either.

When you read the description further it seems to be implying this is a "by request only" item.

You just wonder if someone's got their wires crossed with the 12". No other site seems to reference this CD release.



Assuming the cd single is getting a separate release, the cd does include the Takkyu Ishino mix, according to http://trafficjpn.com/news/neworderlive/ (english translation from petersaville.info):

Quote:

Wrapping Cloth “Furoshiki” Box Set (Cassette Album + Three CD Singles)
To Be Sold Exclusively at the Venue of the Concert in Japan 25 May 2016
Contains:
• Music Complete Cassette Album
• Restless CD Single
• Tutti Frutti CD Single (First appearance of Takkyu Ishino Remix on CD)
• Singularity CD Single

thanks 1 user thanked indiearchivist for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 13/04/2016(UTC)
Peter Who?  
#29 Posted : 14 April 2016 01:33:22(UTC)
Peter Who?

Rank: Candidate

Groups: Registered
Joined: 14/04/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Yesterday I received the 12". I tried to download the mp3 files from the code but it fails everytime. Anybody else have problems with downloads from the Japanese 12"?

Edited by user 14 April 2016 05:29:47(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked Peter Who? for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 14/04/2016(UTC)
depthcharge  
#30 Posted : 14 April 2016 05:40:47(UTC)
depthcharge

Rank: Member of the Republic

Groups: Registered
Joined: 16/02/2013(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: Australia

Thanks: 10 times
Was thanked: 261 time(s) in 171 post(s)
Originally Posted by: indiearchivist Go to Quoted Post

Assuming the cd single is getting a separate release, the cd does include the Takkyu Ishino mix, according to http://trafficjpn.com/news/neworderlive/ (english translation from petersaville.info):

I wonder if it will get a release outside of that box.

Doesn't appear to be on the radar of the other major Japanese sites.

thanks 1 user thanked depthcharge for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 14/04/2016(UTC)
Aracri  
#31 Posted : 14 April 2016 06:08:38(UTC)
Aracri

Rank: Member of the Brotherhood

Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 346
Man
Location: Rio de Janeiro

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 403 time(s) in 355 post(s)
Originally Posted by: nofotro Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hé Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
There's a Discogs entry already for those that care. No hype sticker on the outside of the shrinkwrap. No download code.

No download code! Sad news but good for my money.


My 12" arrived today. There was a download code included with my copy on a small sticker at the bottom of the inner sleeve.


Mine got the code too. Didn't try to download with it yet.

Peter Who?

UserPostedImage

thanks 1 user thanked Aracri for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 14/04/2016(UTC)
Aracri  
#32 Posted : 14 April 2016 11:51:10(UTC)
Aracri

Rank: Member of the Brotherhood

Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 346
Man
Location: Rio de Janeiro

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 403 time(s) in 355 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Peter Who? Go to Quoted Post
Yesterday I received the 12". I tried to download the mp3 files from the code but it fails everytime. Anybody else have problems with downloads from the Japanese 12"?


I didn't have any trouble to download the files.

About the download, just two tracks (exactly as the 12") in two file formats: MP3 and FLAC.

Tutti Frutti - Extended 12" Mix 18.09 MB
Tutti Frutti - Takkiyu Ishino Remix 18.10 MB
(or all above mp3s zipped in one file 28.77 MB)
Tutti Frutti - Extended 12" Mix (flac) 97.23 MB
Tutti Frutti - Takkiyu Ishino Remix (flac) 89.49 MB

Edited by user 14 April 2016 11:52:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter Who?

UserPostedImage

thanks 2 users thanked Aracri for this useful post.
Andy on 14/04/2016(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 14/04/2016(UTC)
Andy  
#33 Posted : 16 April 2016 10:20:04(UTC)
Andy

Rank: Guilty Partner

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,795
Man
Location: Seaside, California

Thanks: 1101 times
Was thanked: 2457 time(s) in 1810 post(s)
As suspected, 12" (not CDS) delivered: Konnichiwa

Strangely, even the packing slip describes it as a "CD".
thanks 1 user thanked Andy for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 27/04/2016(UTC)
Tracey  
#34 Posted : 16 April 2016 17:39:58(UTC)
Tracey

Rank: Candidate

Groups: Registered
Joined: 27/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 11

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 14 time(s) in 11 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
As suspected, 12" (not CDS) delivered: Konnichiwa

Strangely, even the packing slip describes it as a "CD".


Same thing here. My "CD" is 12" in diameter and is made of black vinyl.
thanks 2 users thanked Tracey for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 27/04/2016(UTC), Andy on 05/12/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#35 Posted : 18 April 2016 18:18:10(UTC)
Andy

Rank: Guilty Partner

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,795
Man
Location: Seaside, California

Thanks: 1101 times
Was thanked: 2457 time(s) in 1810 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Tracey Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
As suspected, 12" (not CDS) delivered: Konnichiwa

Strangely, even the packing slip describes it as a "CD".


Same thing here. My "CD" is 12" in diameter and is made of black vinyl.


I posted a comment on the site to inform future purchasers.

Today, I received this email:

Hello,

Thank you for your order.

About NEODAI-11455 - Tutti Frutti -Takkyu Ishino Remix,
it is a 12 inch lp, not compact disc as you said.

This is the original page.
http://tower.jp/item/415...%AE%9A%E7%9B%A4%EF%BC%9E


We correct the description.
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEODAI-11455


We are sorry about this time.


Sincerely,
Saeko Obi
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/


Not sure why the "original page" is a Tower Records site, but do appreciate the apology.
thanks 1 user thanked Andy for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 27/04/2016(UTC)
Debaser  
#36 Posted : 19 April 2016 02:51:51(UTC)
Debaser

Rank: Guilty Partner

Groups: Registered
Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,905
Location: here n there

Thanks: 397 times
Was thanked: 2644 time(s) in 1926 post(s)
I'm not sure how it all works out after postage costs - and that may depend on what postage option you chose, but it appears to me that Amazon JP and others were charging less than the basic 3660 Yen that CD Japan were charging. If that's the case, I would be tempted to request a partial refund. Otherwise they have misled and overcharged you. They actually sent you a link to Tower Records where the price is cheaper?!? Kerrazee.
Oh and HMV's "member price" is Y 1836. That's about half the price of CD Japan.
Just my two penneth worth...

Edited by user 19 April 2016 03:49:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked Debaser for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 27/04/2016(UTC)
Aracri  
#37 Posted : 19 April 2016 11:08:17(UTC)
Aracri

Rank: Member of the Brotherhood

Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 346
Man
Location: Rio de Janeiro

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 403 time(s) in 355 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tracey Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
As suspected, 12" (not CDS) delivered: Konnichiwa

Strangely, even the packing slip describes it as a "CD".


Same thing here. My "CD" is 12" in diameter and is made of black vinyl.


I posted a comment on the site to inform future purchasers.

Today, I received this email:

Hello,

Thank you for your order.

About NEODAI-11455 - Tutti Frutti -Takkyu Ishino Remix,
it is a 12 inch lp, not compact disc as you said.

This is the original page.
http://tower.jp/item/415...%AE%9A%E7%9B%A4%EF%BC%9E


We correct the description.
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEODAI-11455


We are sorry about this time.


Sincerely,
Saeko Obi
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/


Not sure why the "original page" is a Tower Records site, but do appreciate the apology.


I'm very disappointed.

I did the order when the single was still listed as a CD. When it arrived - surprise! - another 12 inch vinyl for my collection. Strangely, in the packing slip / receipt, is written "Format: CDA"! Evidently I will ask them a refund.

Peter Who?

UserPostedImage

thanks 1 user thanked Aracri for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 27/04/2016(UTC)
Debaser  
#38 Posted : 06 October 2020 13:15:34(UTC)
Debaser

Rank: Guilty Partner

Groups: Registered
Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,905
Location: here n there

Thanks: 397 times
Was thanked: 2644 time(s) in 1926 post(s)
I can't find an original Tutti Frutti thread so this'll have to do.
I was listening to Peanut Butter (Larry Levan mix) by Gwen Guthrie today and I started thinking about how NO have used other tracks as a template before.

Tutti Frutti came to mind here. The first few seconds of echo-y intro, the percussion, the groove. Also the end of the track- the bass pluck bit and overall production from 5.30 onwards.
It feels like it inspired the Tutti Frutti vibe. It has a food name in common too.

Anyone agree/disagree/give a damn?

[Also the "I'm in love with you, want you to love me too" vocal should be instantly recognisable to a generation of 90s ravers]

*EDIT* I also wonder if Information Society's Running (Nest mix) may have influenced World. Try jumping in around 2.55 .

Edited by user 06 October 2020 13:24:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked Debaser for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 06/10/2020(UTC)
50poundnote  
#39 Posted : 06 October 2020 13:28:02(UTC)
50poundnote

Rank: Member of the Brotherhood

Groups: Registered
Joined: 29/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 441

Thanks: 8 times
Was thanked: 725 time(s) in 441 post(s)
Nicely spotted! :D

There's some definite, good similarities there.
thanks 2 users thanked 50poundnote for this useful post.
Debaser on 06/10/2020(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 06/10/2020(UTC)
negative1  
#40 Posted : 29 December 2020 16:10:41(UTC)
negative1

Rank: Member with Substance

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,006

Thanks: 612 times
Was thanked: 1313 time(s) in 1008 post(s)
i'm in the process of getting all the colored vinyl 12 inches now.

just got this one from japan, they're still out there, and not that expensive.

later
-1
thanks 1 user thanked negative1 for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 08/01/2021(UTC)
Jonathan  
#41 Posted : 30 December 2020 01:35:29(UTC)
Jonathan

Rank: Member of the Republic

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/07/2013(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: Tynemouth

Thanks: 37 times
Was thanked: 144 time(s) in 121 post(s)
Is the JPN release purple vinyl?

My yellow 12” gets a lot of play at the moment, my 18 month old loves putting records on and this is one of her favourites
thanks 2 users thanked Jonathan for this useful post.
negative1 on 30/12/2020(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 08/01/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#42 Posted : 30 December 2020 09:28:57(UTC)
Andy

Rank: Guilty Partner

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,795
Man
Location: Seaside, California

Thanks: 1101 times
Was thanked: 2457 time(s) in 1810 post(s)
I didn't know that the Japanese Tutti Frutti 12" was coloured vinyl. Never opened mine up!
thanks 2 users thanked Andy for this useful post.
negative1 on 30/12/2020(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 08/01/2021(UTC)
50poundnote  
#43 Posted : 30 December 2020 10:41:18(UTC)
50poundnote

Rank: Member of the Brotherhood

Groups: Registered
Joined: 29/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 441

Thanks: 8 times
Was thanked: 725 time(s) in 441 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
I didn't know that the Japanese Tutti Frutti 12" was coloured vinyl. Never opened mine up!


No, it's standard black vinyl.
thanks 2 users thanked 50poundnote for this useful post.
Andy on 30/12/2020(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 08/01/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#44 Posted : 30 December 2020 11:33:44(UTC)
negative1

Rank: Member with Substance

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,006

Thanks: 612 times
Was thanked: 1313 time(s) in 1008 post(s)
Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
I didn't know that the Japanese Tutti Frutti 12" was coloured vinyl. Never opened mine up!


No, it's standard black vinyl.




correct, i was getting it mixed up with the purple vinyl for singularity.

later
-1
thanks 1 user thanked negative1 for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 08/01/2021(UTC)
Debaser  
#45 Posted : 04 December 2021 17:00:51(UTC)
Debaser

Rank: Guilty Partner

Groups: Registered
Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,905
Location: here n there

Thanks: 397 times
Was thanked: 2644 time(s) in 1926 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
I can't find an original Tutti Frutti thread so this'll have to do.
I was listening to Peanut Butter (Larry Levan mix) by Gwen Guthrie today and I started thinking about how NO have used other tracks as a template before.

Tutti Frutti came to mind here. The first few seconds of echo-y intro, the percussion, the groove. Also the end of the track- the bass pluck bit and overall production from 5.30 onwards.
It feels like it inspired the Tutti Frutti vibe. It has a food name in common too.

Anyone agree/disagree/give a damn?

[Also the "I'm in love with you, want you to love me too" vocal should be instantly recognisable to a generation of 90s ravers]

*EDIT* I also wonder if Information Society's Running (Nest mix) may have influenced World. Try jumping in around 2.55 .


Is this the wrong thread? Yep, but in light of inspiration/template talk above (BTW both the above tracks came out in 1986), someone posted something on the "New Order" (fan) FB page. A John Robie produced track described as inspiration for Shellshock. And I think they might be right. From 1982 this time:

C-Bank - One More Shot


thanks 4 users thanked Debaser for this useful post.
Mr. Disco on 04/12/2021(UTC), Andy on 05/12/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 06/12/2021(UTC), negative1 on 07/12/2021(UTC)
Fotz  
#46 Posted : 05 December 2021 10:21:55(UTC)
Fotz

Rank: Dead Soul

Groups: Registered
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Down on the farm

Thanks: 524 times
Was thanked: 3165 time(s) in 2375 post(s)
^ Yes, a bit Shellshock ish that track. Hooky may have had a point though in his Substance book when he said Robie was responsible for the end of New Order’s innovative earlier stuff. He influenced NO to work in a more standard verse/chorus way rather than the more freeform way on earlier tracks like EGG.
thanks 1 user thanked Fotz for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 06/12/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#47 Posted : 05 December 2021 11:45:50(UTC)
Andy

Rank: Guilty Partner

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,795
Man
Location: Seaside, California

Thanks: 1101 times
Was thanked: 2457 time(s) in 1810 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
I can't find an original Tutti Frutti thread so this'll have to do.
I was listening to Peanut Butter (Larry Levan mix) by Gwen Guthrie today and I started thinking about how NO have used other tracks as a template before.

Tutti Frutti came to mind here. The first few seconds of echo-y intro, the percussion, the groove. Also the end of the track- the bass pluck bit and overall production from 5.30 onwards.
It feels like it inspired the Tutti Frutti vibe. It has a food name in common too.

Anyone agree/disagree/give a damn?

[Also the "I'm in love with you, want you to love me too" vocal should be instantly recognisable to a generation of 90s ravers]

*EDIT* I also wonder if Information Society's Running (Nest mix) may have influenced World. Try jumping in around 2.55 .


Is this the wrong thread? Yep, but in light of inspiration/template talk above (BTW both the above tracks came out in 1986), someone posted something on the "New Order" (fan) FB page. A John Robie produced track described as inspiration for Shellshock. And I think they might be right. From 1982 this time:

C-Bank - One More Shot




Yes. The story goes that the band created a more atmospheric/ambient piece, thinking they were contributing to the score of the film Pretty in Pink. The director rejected it, having hoped for something more song-based. The band then had a much shorter window to come up with something, so Robie played a larger part in Shellshock's creation due to the impending deadline.

If you've ever seen the film, you'll notice that Shellshock is actually only featured for a few fleeting seconds when a radio is being tuned to a station. Ironically, Elegia and Thieves Like Us Instrumental receieved far more prominent placement.

Shellshock seems to divide some fans. Some seem to really detest it. I loved the drama and manic edits and drum programming at the time, but am not sure it has aged as well. At the time of Substance, I was nearly as annoyed by the edit of it as I was of The Perfect Kiss. Always liked the line "The love that comes from pain destroys the very same." from the missing verse, though I'm not sure how to interpret it.

Edited by user 05 December 2021 11:48:17(UTC)  | Reason: Sloppy punctuation

thanks 1 user thanked Andy for this useful post.
ROCKET MICK on 06/12/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#48 Posted : 05 December 2021 15:33:22(UTC)
perspexorange

Rank: Guilty Partner

Groups: Registered
Joined: 20/10/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,926
Location: Salop

Thanks: 347 times
Was thanked: 2690 time(s) in 1926 post(s)
I love Shellshock. It was one of the first tracks that I really played to death when I first got into the band.

For years I never even knew about that 'missing verse'. I only ever had the edit on Substance, the 7" and the video edit. I never had the 12" version.
The first time I heard the extra verse was when I decided to buy the Pretty In Pink soundtrack, and the version on that had the verse. I almost dropped my bacon sarnie when I heard Bernard start singing 'new' lyrics.

I didn't get to hear the full 12" until (probably) Recycle.

Although I'd have preferred that they hadn't edited any of the mixes on Substance, I do think that the 12"s of both Shellshock and Sub-Culture are a tad long and repetitive. Especially Shellshock (how many times do they repeat the chorus at the end?!! Crikey!).

My favourite version of Shellshock is actually that Pretty In Pink version. It includes the extra verse like the 12" does, but doesn't go on and on and on.

Edited by user 05 December 2021 15:37:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 3 users thanked perspexorange for this useful post.
Mr. Disco on 05/12/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 06/12/2021(UTC), Andy on 06/12/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#49 Posted : 06 December 2021 12:26:42(UTC)
Andy

Rank: Guilty Partner

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,795
Man
Location: Seaside, California

Thanks: 1101 times
Was thanked: 2457 time(s) in 1810 post(s)
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
I love Shellshock. It was one of the first tracks that I really played to death when I first got into the band.

For years I never even knew about that 'missing verse'. I only ever had the edit on Substance, the 7" and the video edit. I never had the 12" version.
The first time I heard the extra verse was when I decided to buy the Pretty In Pink soundtrack, and the version on that had the verse. I almost dropped my bacon sarnie when I heard Bernard start singing 'new' lyrics.

I didn't get to hear the full 12" until (probably) Recycle.

Although I'd have preferred that they hadn't edited any of the mixes on Substance, I do think that the 12"s of both Shellshock and Sub-Culture are a tad long and repetitive. Especially Shellshock (how many times do they repeat the chorus at the end?!! Crikey!).

My favourite version of Shellshock is actually that Pretty In Pink version. It includes the extra verse like the 12" does, but doesn't go on and on and on.


I can understand that. The soundtrack "version" is essentially the standard track, everything else being a remix and/or edit.

I don't mind the Extended version (or even Shellcock) as I saw the track as akin to Blue Monday and Confusion in that it incorporated elements of a different style into their songwriting. The production and drum breaks being their (and, of course, Robie's) take on Hip-Hop. No different then they did later with the acid-house influenced Fine Time.

Back in the day, I always wished that a New Order single release would always consist of:

1) An extended mix (preferably by the group or at least in the spirit of the original)
2) A previously unreleased b-side
3) An instrumental or dub of the a-side
4) A clutch of remixes on an additional 12" or CD-single

Edited by user 06 December 2021 12:28:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 3 users thanked Andy for this useful post.
Like No Other on 06/12/2021(UTC), Mr. Disco on 06/12/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 07/12/2021(UTC)
Mr. Disco  
#50 Posted : 06 December 2021 16:16:37(UTC)
Mr. Disco

Rank: Member of the Republic

Groups: Registered
Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 160
Man
Location: Brazil

Thanks: 443 times
Was thanked: 272 time(s) in 160 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Back in the day, I always wished that a New Order single release would always consist of:

1) An extended mix (preferably by the group or at least in the spirit of the original)
2) A previously unreleased b-side
3) An instrumental or dub of the a-side
4) A clutch of remixes on an additional 12" or CD-single

The last one being Here to Stay?... 20 long years ago Frown

thanks 2 users thanked Mr. Disco for this useful post.
Andy on 07/12/2021(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 07/12/2021(UTC)
Users browsing this topic
Guest (3)
2 Pages<12
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 2.1.1 | YAF © 2003-2022, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.148 seconds.