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perspexorange  
#1 Posted : 01 May 2022 07:14:00(UTC)
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Whilst posting on the 'Mick Middles book' thread, I started thinking about some of the of things that influenced the aesthetic of the band. Mainly the sleeve design, but other things too.

I thought it might be interesting to list some sources of things that the band/Saville 'borrowed' etc.

There's a part of me that kind of wants to collect all of these things, but that way lies madness:

'The House Of Dolls' novel (where the band's name was taken from, as well as providing the lyrics to the spoken word part of 'No Love Lost')
UserPostedImage

'History Of The 20th Century' magazine #50 (Bernard traced the cover of this for the drummer boy image on the 'An Ideal For Living' sleeve)
UserPostedImage

The book/magazine with the photo of Tsvi C. Nussbaum in Warsaw, 1943 (used on inside of the 'An Ideal For Living' sleeve. Anyone know where the is from? Possibly the same magazine as above?)
UserPostedImage

'The Cambridge Encyclopaedia of Astronomy' (1977 edition) (CP1919 'plot stack' image used on cover of 'Unknown Pleasures')
UserPostedImage

The magazine or book that Saville was reading that had the Ralph Gibson 'Hand Through a Doorway' photo used on the inner sleeve of 'Unknown Pleasures' (any idea where this came from?)
UserPostedImage

'Zoom' magazine (British edition) #10 (Mar-Apr '80) (where the Bernard Pierre Wolff photos used on the 'Closer' and 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' sleeves were used, I think! - anyone know for sure?)
UserPostedImage

'The Atrocity Exhibition' by J G Ballard (that provided the song title of the opening track on 'Closer')
UserPostedImage

The magazine/newspaper Saville was reading on Italian Futurism that he used for the 'Procession'/'Movement' sleeves.
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage

'Strings Go West' LP by Super Sonic Strings (which, possibly provided the cover to 'Regret', unless it was nicked from somewhere else)
UserPostedImage

The magazine/newspaper Rob was reading that featured 'The New Order Of Kampuchean Liberation' headline, which gave the band their new name (no idea what newspaper this was from)


Anything else?

Edited by user 01 May 2022 07:31:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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negative1 on 01/05/2022(UTC), Like No Other on 01/05/2022(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
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Fotz  
#2 Posted : 01 May 2022 07:48:19(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

The magazine or book that Saville was reading that had the Ralph Gibson 'Hand Through a Doorway' photo used on the inner sleeve of 'Unknown Pleasures' (any idea where this came from?)
UserPostedImage



Well that photo on the inner sleeve is from those Somnambulist photographs that you posted a link to in the Mick Middles book thread earlier today! Or have i misunderstood your question here?


But yeah, good idea for a thread, perspex and some great pics you've posted.Hadn't ssen the cover for that Strings Go West LP before but it has to be the inspiration for the Regret sleeve or was it entirely coincidental?

First one i can think of that springs to mind that you didn't include is the painting 'Evil Genius Of A King' (1914-15) by Giorgio De Chirico.Quite clearly influenced Saville's sleeve for Thieves Like Us and then Murder i guess.Saville has said in the past that the painting is where he took the idea from for the Thieves sleeve.There was even a tee shirt a year or two back with both the De Chirico painting and Saville's sleeve for Thieves Like Us.

UserPostedImage

Edited by user 01 May 2022 07:53:44(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Debaser  
#3 Posted : 01 May 2022 07:59:05(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

'The Cambridge Encyclopaedia of Astronomy' (1977 edition) (CP1919 'plot stack' image used on cover of 'Unknown Pleasures')
UserPostedImage


Ahh yes, I took/posted a similar pic in Reply #13 of the Use Hearing Protection exhibition thread. I guess a lot of us who went to that in London or Manchester can at least say we've seen the book, even if we couldn't turn the pages on it. Same for the Closer book/magazine.

Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

'The Atrocity Exhibition' by J G Ballard (that provided the song title of the opening track on 'Closer')
UserPostedImage


I wonder if Danny Brown fans are equally interested?
I read Ballard's pervy Crash novel and also watched the 2015 film adaptation of High Rise (good cast!). Ballard is a bit weird isn't he? Might consider this though.

Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

'Strings Go West' LP by Super Sonic Strings (which, possibly provided the cover to 'Regret', unless it was nicked from somewhere else)
UserPostedImage


Wasn't this a sort of Stock Image? Or maybe I'm getting mixed up with Chemical Brothers' Exit Planet Dust...


Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

The magazine/newspaper Rob was reading that featured 'The New Order Of Kampuchean Liberation' headline, which gave the band their new name (no idea what newspaper this was from)


Supposedly The Sunday Times...

Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

Anything else?


Well we did discuss films influencing song titles previously.

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#4 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:09:07(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

The magazine or book that Saville was reading that had the Ralph Gibson 'Hand Through a Doorway' photo used on the inner sleeve of 'Unknown Pleasures' (any idea where this came from?)
UserPostedImage



Well that photo on the inner sleeve is from those Somnambulist photographs that you posted a link to in the Mick Middles book thread earlier today! Or have i misunderstood your question here?


Sorry, yeah, I probably should've been clearer.
What I mean is, where did Saville (or Bernard etc) specifically find the image 'Hand Through a Doorway'? Was this (and the rest of the 'Somnabulist' pictures) in a magazine? And, if so, which magazine?

Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post

But yeah, good idea for a thread, perspex and some great pics you've posted.Hadn't ssen the cover for that Strings Go West LP before but it has to be the inspiration for the Regret sleeve or was it entirely coincidental?


It's certainly possible that this was a stock image in a library of images, I guess.
I first found out about it after a reader's letter in the NME highlighted the similarities.
UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post


First one i can think of that springs to mind that you didn't include is the painting 'Evil Genius Of A King' (1914-15) by Giorgio De Chirico.Quite clearly influenced Saville's sleeve for Thieves Like Us and then Murder i guess.Saville has said in the past that the painting is where he took the idea from for the Thieves sleeve.There was even a tee shirt a year or two back with both the De Chirico painting and Saville's sleeve for Thieves Like Us.

UserPostedImage


Excellent! I forgot about that one!
Didn't Saville also take the numbers from around the edges from some board game somewhere?

I also seem to think that a bootleg LP used that original image. I'll have a hunt around and see if I can find it.


Thinking of that 'Cambridge Encyclopaedia' book, I heard it was the 1977 edition, but I've read someone stated it was the 1970 edition. Anyone know?
Also, I think the 'Transmission' 7" sleeve is taken from that same book. Do we know for sure? Would be good to see the original page.
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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Fotz  
#5 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:11:50(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post

I read Ballard's pervy Crash novel and also watched the 2015 film adaptation of High Rise (good cast!).



I have the DVD of High Rise.Think i only watched it once.Nor sure the film worked really.The one thing i recall from it is (i think) Keeley Hawes' character in one scene saying "Right, who wants to fuck me up the arse?" !! Eek

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Debaser on 01/05/2022(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#6 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:17:46(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

'Strings Go West' LP by Super Sonic Strings (which, possibly provided the cover to 'Regret', unless it was nicked from somewhere else)
UserPostedImage


Wasn't this a sort of Stock Image? Or maybe I'm getting mixed up with Chemical Brothers' Exit Planet Dust...


Yeah - that's certainly a possibility, and one I was considering.


Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

The magazine/newspaper Rob was reading that featured 'The New Order Of Kampuchean Liberation' headline, which gave the band their new name (no idea what newspaper this was from)


Supposedly The Sunday Times...


I've certainly heard that mentioned, but I think I've heard talk of other papers or magazine supplements (The Guardian, maybe?)
Would love to find this.

Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

Anything else?


Well we did discuss films influencing song titles previously.



Good call. I might dig up that thread.
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Debaser on 01/05/2022(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Fotz  
#7 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:33:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

The magazine or book that Saville was reading that had the Ralph Gibson 'Hand Through a Doorway' photo used on the inner sleeve of 'Unknown Pleasures' (any idea where this came from?)
UserPostedImage



Well that photo on the inner sleeve is from those Somnambulist photographs that you posted a link to in the Mick Middles book thread earlier today! Or have i misunderstood your question here?


Sorry, yeah, I probably should've been clearer.
What I mean is, where did Saville (or Bernard etc) specifically find the image 'Hand Through a Doorway'? Was this (and the rest of the 'Somnabulist' pictures) in a magazine? And, if so, which magazine?


ah ok, i'm wiv yer now but no i don't know what magazine or book they'd seen it in.

Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post

But yeah, good idea for a thread, perspex and some great pics you've posted.Hadn't ssen the cover for that Strings Go West LP before but it has to be the inspiration for the Regret sleeve or was it entirely coincidental?


It's certainly possible that this was a stock image in a library of images, I guess.
I first found out about it after a reader's letter in the NME highlighted the similarities.
UserPostedImage



Actually, i have a vague memory of seeing that article in NME back then, yes.

Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post


First one i can think of that springs to mind that you didn't include is the painting 'Evil Genius Of A King' (1914-15) by Giorgio De Chirico.Quite clearly influenced Saville's sleeve for Thieves Like Us and then Murder i guess.Saville has said in the past that the painting is where he took the idea from for the Thieves sleeve.There was even a tee shirt a year or two back with both the De Chirico painting and Saville's sleeve for Thieves Like Us.

UserPostedImage


Excellent! I forgot about that one!
Didn't Saville also take the numbers from around the edges from some board game somewhere?

I also seem to think that a bootleg LP used that original image. I'll have a hunt around and see if I can find it.




I think the numbers idea came from Saville seeing them on a table at Blair Castle in Scotland.The bootleg LP you're thinking of is of the Bradford Caesars Palace , March 1984 gig.I have a folder with the recording and i thought i also had the image in the folder of the bootleg's s sleeve .But looked just now and the image isn't in there! Where has it gone? That's frustrating and i can't find the image online when i Googled it.I think it was actually a different De Chirico painting that was used however, not the Evil Genius Of A King one.

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Fotz  
#8 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:37:47(UTC)
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I recall reading that the newspaper that had the 'The New Order Of Kampuchean Liberation' headline as The Guardian.
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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#9 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:39:27(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

Excellent! I forgot about that one!
Didn't Saville also take the numbers from around the edges from some board game somewhere?



I knew I hadn't imagined it. According to Wikipedia, Saville took inspiration from 'The New and Fashionable Game of the Jew' (Eek )

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage


<Edit>
Looking at the Saville sleeve, the numbers are in exactly the same order as those in the game, so he must've grabbed it from there.


UserPostedImage

Perhaps he just misremembered where he had seen the numbers.
Or, perhaps more likely, he didn't want to throw any more fuel on the "New Order are Nazis' fire, by admitting he got the numbers from an anti-semetic game.

Edited by user 01 May 2022 09:03:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#10 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:47:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post


I think the numbers idea came from Saville seeing them on a table at Blair Castle in Scotland.



Yeah. That sounds familiar, now you say it. Thanks.

I have found the game that I had heard of (see above post). Maybe Saville saw the game on a table at Blair Castle. Or maybe the table and the game just shared similar design aesthetics.

Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post


The bootleg LP you're thinking of is of the Bradford Caesars Palace , March 1984 gig.I have a folder with the recording and i thought i also had the image in the folder of the bootleg's s sleeve .But looked just now and the image isn't in there! Where has it gone? That's frustrating and i can't find the image online when i Googled it.I think it was actually a different De Chirico painting that was used however, not the Evil Genius Of A King one.



Thanks. i knew I hadn't imagined it.
I can't find the image either. Weird.
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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#11 Posted : 01 May 2022 08:54:45(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post


I think the numbers idea came from Saville seeing them on a table at Blair Castle in Scotland.



Yeah. That sounds familiar, now you say it. Thanks.

I have found the game that I had heard of (see above post). Maybe Saville saw the game on a table at Blair Castle. Or maybe the table and the game just shared similar design aesthetics.



Hmm, this confirms that it was on painted table at Blair Castle, like you said, Fotz.

It also mentions Saville saw it pictured in a 'Country Life' magazine, so that's another source.

https://www.niagara.edu/neworder/singles/tlu.html
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Fotz on 01/05/2022(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Fotz  
#12 Posted : 01 May 2022 09:20:28(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

Excellent! I forgot about that one!
Didn't Saville also take the numbers from around the edges from some board game somewhere?



I knew I hadn't imagined it. According to Wikipedia, Saville took inspiration from 'The New and Fashionable Game of the Jew' (Eek )

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage


<Edit>
Looking at the Saville sleeve, the numbers are in exactly the same order as those in the game, so he must've grabbed it from there.


UserPostedImage

Perhaps he just misremembered where he had seen the numbers.
Or, perhaps more likely, he didn't want to throw any more fuel on the "New Order are Nazis' fire, by admitting he got the numbers from an anti-semetic game.


Wow, i've never heard of that or seen those images.It's quite clearly an inspiration for the TLU sleeve!! So yeah, which is it? The table at Blair Castle or that game? He saw the board game on a table at Blair Castle? But it's mentioned elsewhere that the numbers were on the table itself? All a bit of a puzzle!

This i think is the De Chirico painting used on the cover for the bootleg of the Bradford March 1984 gig.It was surrounded by numbers on the cover similar to they way the TLU sleeve is but the numbers on the bootleg sleeve were i think the date of the gig.I'm sure it was this one rather than Evil Genius Of A King.Can't be sure though as the bootleg cover image has mysteriously disappeared from the folder on my laptop. This painting by De Chirico is The Disquieting Muses (1916 or 1917 or 1918)
UserPostedImage



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perspexorange on 01/05/2022(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#13 Posted : 01 May 2022 09:33:45(UTC)
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Hmm. That does look very familiar.
Wonder why we can’t find the bootleg online. Odd.

Looking at those two De Chirico images, I have to say, I love them. I should check out more of his work.
(TLU has always been one of my favourite sleeves, alongside Murder).
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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Debaser  
#14 Posted : 01 May 2022 09:39:36(UTC)
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Instrumental cover versions of old country songs.

Side A


A1 Billy Boy 2:12
A2 The Streets Of Laredo 2:13
A3 Bury me Not On The Lone Prairie 1:56
A4 I'Ve Got No Use For Women 1:55
A5 Jesse James 2:07
A6 Songs Of The Golden West 3:07


Side B


B1 Red River Valley 2:25
B2 The Old Chisholm Trail 2:03
B3 Whoopie Ti-Yi-Yo 2:12
B4 The Colorado Trail 2:19
B5 The Cowboy 1:52
B6 Home On The Range 2:32

Side A, track 2, The Streets Of Laredo is a song I remember being played on the stereo when I was a kid. Sung by Marty Robbins, perhaps some of our American forumites might know it too.


Big Iron by Marty is also worth checking out, if you like that sort of thing.

Now that I've gone massively off-topic, here's the theme from The Big Country (1958). Which you may recognise from 808 State & MC Tunes' The Only Rhyme That Bites (which kinda brings things back to Manchester)




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perspexorange on 02/05/2022(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#15 Posted : 01 May 2022 09:41:25(UTC)
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I guess the obvious one we're missing here is Henry Fantin-Latour's 'Basket Of Roses'.

UserPostedImage


Saville supposedly picked up a postcard of the painting at the National Gallery's gift shop, which gave him the inspiration.

Edited by user 01 May 2022 09:45:08(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Fotz  
#16 Posted : 01 May 2022 09:48:03(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Hmm. That does look very familiar.
Wonder why we can’t find the bootleg online. Odd.

Looking at those two De Chirico images, I have to say, I love them. I should check out more of his work.
(TLU has always been one of my favourite sleeves, alongside Murder).


Yeah De Chirico did some fabulous stuff.

Hurrah! I finally found the image on my laptop for the Bradford 1984 bootleg

UserPostedImage

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Fotz  
#17 Posted : 01 May 2022 09:53:06(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
I guess the obvious one we're missing here is Henry Fantin-Latour's 'Basket Of Roses'.

UserPostedImage


Saville supposedly picked up a postcard of the painting at the National Gallery's gift shop, which gave him the inspiration.


I picked up the postcard too at a visit to the National Gallery once.I saw the original painting when it was on display at that Joy Division/ New Order exhibition in Manchester in 2017.Have a photo of it somewhere.Can't recall the name of the exhibition now, there's been so many of them.

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Fotz  
#18 Posted : 01 May 2022 11:39:07(UTC)
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Was Saville inspired by Josef Muller-Brockman's 1960 poster for Der
Film? Was Der Film a show or something? Very similar to Saville's design for the Low Life sleeve with the font and overlapping words

UserPostedImage
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negative1 on 01/05/2022(UTC), murphmanz on 02/05/2022(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#19 Posted : 02 May 2022 00:16:21(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
Instrumental cover versions of old country songs.



Cheers for these.
Didn't think to check YouTube.

I guess the record sounds like you'd expect.

As regards that 808 State/MC Tunes track, I actually recognised 'The Big Country' theme when they sampled it.
I have a knack of once hearing a tune, and never forgetting it. So I knew it was aWestern theme tune, but couldn't place it a the time.

Nice to hear it in full again.
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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#20 Posted : 02 May 2022 00:22:30(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Hmm. That does look very familiar.
Wonder why we can’t find the bootleg online. Odd.

Looking at those two De Chirico images, I have to say, I love them. I should check out more of his work.
(TLU has always been one of my favourite sleeves, alongside Murder).


Yeah De Chirico did some fabulous stuff.

Hurrah! I finally found the image on my laptop for the Bradford 1984 bootleg

UserPostedImage



Well done! Glad I didn't imagine it.
Pretty cool cover. Some of those bootleg LPs were very well done.

Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Was Saville inspired by Josef Muller-Brockman's 1960 poster for Der
Film? Was Der Film a show or something? Very similar to Saville's design for the Low Life sleeve with the font and overlapping words

UserPostedImage


Hmm, interesting. It is quite 'LowLife', isn't it?


Highlighting all of these influences makes it seem like we're trying to say Saville was a massive plagiarist.
I'm not really. I think it's one thing to just swipe something and another thing entirely to take influences and apply them in interesting ways. I think, when Saville did borrow stuff, he did the latter.

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murphmanz on 02/05/2022(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Fotz  
#21 Posted : 02 May 2022 02:39:29(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Hmm. That does look very familiar.
Wonder why we can’t find the bootleg online. Odd.

Looking at those two De Chirico images, I have to say, I love them. I should check out more of his work.
(TLU has always been one of my favourite sleeves, alongside Murder).


Yeah De Chirico did some fabulous stuff.

Hurrah! I finally found the image on my laptop for the Bradford 1984 bootleg

UserPostedImage



Well done! Glad I didn't imagine it.
Pretty cool cover. Some of those bootleg LPs were very well done.



Yep it is pretty cool and well done, isn't it.Obviously the numbers down the left are the year and the top middle and then bottom middle are the month and day respectively. As for the numbers down the right , well i'm assuming it's just random numbers the creator put to fill the boxes .Unless there is some significance to them? 8,4,7,2 ??I've no idea.Cool cover either way.

Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Was Saville inspired by Josef Muller-Brockman's 1960 poster for Der
Film? Was Der Film a show or something? Very similar to Saville's design for the Low Life sleeve with the font and overlapping words

UserPostedImage


Hmm, interesting. It is quite 'LowLife', isn't it?


Highlighting all of these influences makes it seem like we're trying to say Saville was a massive plagiarist.
I'm not really. I think it's one thing to just swipe something and another thing entirely to take influences and apply them in interesting ways. I think, when Saville did borrow stuff, he did the latter.



Well i looked up the Der Film thing because i vaguely remember one or two articles over the years talking about the similarity of the Low Life cover's lettering echoing it.I'm sure Der Film was mentioned in somethings i read about Low Life's sleeve.I actually thought when i first clapped eyes on the Low Life sleeve the day i bought it on its release that there was something about it vaguely 1960s ish but couldn't put my finger on exactly what.Maybe it was indeed the font and i'd seen that font used in 1960s art and of course there was also the fact it is in black and white which is very 60s ish

But yeah, like you say, i'll also go with Saville taking his influences and applying them in interesting ways

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
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#22 Posted : 02 May 2022 03:31:13(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Was Saville inspired by Josef Muller-Brockman's 1960 poster for Der
Film? Was Der Film a show or something? Very similar to Saville's design for the Low Life sleeve with the font and overlapping words

UserPostedImage


Factory Records, the Complete Graphic Album, AKA FAC 461. That's probably where you read it. Go to page 88 (might be a different page on the re-released, re-packaged version):

Quote:
...multi-layered composition is further enhanced by the over-printed text on the cover (which is a direct quotation of Josef Muller Brockmann's Der Film poster of 1960). The vertical orientation of the text was carried across to Fac 123 (see p91) where it is blind embossed.

Fac 123 is of course, TPK.

Just looking at the Discogs entry for TPK: "Released on 20 May 1985 as 12" and on 04 November 1985 as 7". Well that made sense (!).
And "The single peaked at #46 in the UK charts." Well if you're gonna release the formats nearly 6 months apart...




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#23 Posted : 02 May 2022 03:49:02(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Was Saville inspired by Josef Muller-Brockman's 1960 poster for Der
Film? Was Der Film a show or something? Very similar to Saville's design for the Low Life sleeve with the font and overlapping words

UserPostedImage


Factory Records, the Complete Graphic Album, AKA FAC 461. That's probably where you read it. Go to page 88 (might be a different page on the re-released, re-packaged version):

Quote:
...multi-layered composition is further enhanced by the over-printed text on the cover (which is a direct quotation of Josef Muller Brockmann's Der Film poster of 1960). The vertical orientation of the text was carried across to Fac 123 (see p91) where it is blind embossed.

Fac 123 is of course, TPK.

Just looking at the Discogs entry for TPK: "Released on 20 May 1985 as 12" and on 04 November 1985 as 7". Well that made sense (!).
And "The single peaked at #46 in the UK charts." Well if you're gonna release the formats nearly 6 months apart...




Oh great spot, Debaser! Good work.Yes i have that book , the hardback edition and just checked out page 88 and yep, there it is the bit about the Der Film poster.Knew id read it somewhere.

Pedant's corner now but I'm going to have to dispute that Discogs claim that 20 May 1985 as the release date for the TPK 12". I bought the album and the TPK 12" on the same day, Low Life's release day which was 13th May 1985.I definitely bought the two on that same day.Maybe if they'd released the 12" a week or two before the album it'd have sold better? And i bought one of the Factory Benelux TPK 7" (there were 4 cover variations i think) in September 1985. There never was a UK 7" of TPK was there? Am i right? The Benelux 7" was the nearest it came , right?
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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
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#24 Posted : 02 May 2022 04:01:39(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post


Pedant's corner now but I'm going to have to dispute that Discogs claim that 20 May 1985 as the release date for the TPK 12". I bought the album and the TPK 12" on the same day, Low Life's release day which was 13th May 1985.I definitely bought the two on that same day.Maybe if they'd released the 12" a week or two before the album it'd have sold better? And i bought one of the Factory Benelux TPK 7" (there were 4 cover variations i think) in September 1985. There never was a UK 7" of TPK was there? Am i right? The Benelux 7" was the nearest it came , right?


Release date: click
(first charted May '85. Looks like fans bought it on the first week of release, then it fell down the chart)

UK 7" version: click

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#25 Posted : 02 May 2022 04:34:21(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post


Pedant's corner now but I'm going to have to dispute that Discogs claim that 20 May 1985 as the release date for the TPK 12". I bought the album and the TPK 12" on the same day, Low Life's release day which was 13th May 1985.I definitely bought the two on that same day.Maybe if they'd released the 12" a week or two before the album it'd have sold better? And i bought one of the Factory Benelux TPK 7" (there were 4 cover variations i think) in September 1985. There never was a UK 7" of TPK was there? Am i right? The Benelux 7" was the nearest it came , right?


Release date: click
(first charted May '85. Looks like fans bought it on the first week of release, then it fell down the chart)

UK 7" version: click



The chart date of it being a new entry at no 46 19th May to 25th May 1985 tallies with the 13th May release date, like i said.In those days the UK Chart rundown was on Radio 1 on a Tuesday (it moved to Sunday teatime in October 1987 and then to Friday teatime in 2015).So the 12" was released on 13th May and then on Tuesday 21st the following week it was revealed as a new entry at no 46.If it had been released on 20th May it wouldn't have hit the chart rundown on Radio 1 until the following week on 28th May. Though it wouldn't have got a play on the Radio 1 chart rundown anyway of course because they only played or covered the top 40.


As for the UK 7" release.Well blow me down. I've had that Ivan Ivan edit as an mp3 on my laptop for years but never knew it was that edit that was used on an official UK 7" release in November 1985.I don't what i thought the Ivan Ivan edit was released on or when, i can't account for my gap in knowledge on that one.I never knew there was an official UK 7" ! How have i not known that all these years? Every day's a school day eh?


And not only was it silly to release the 7" 6 months later , it was bonkers to wait til then to release it because around the end of October/beginning of November 1985 (so around the same time as that UK 7" of TPK ) Sub Culture was released as a 7" and 12" in the UK.The releases would have got in each other's way, no? Or at least the Sub Culture release would have distracted from the TPK 7" release.That's maybe why i missed the TPK 7", i was occupied by the Sub Culture release.

Edited by user 02 May 2022 04:41:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
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