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50poundnote  
#26 Posted : 02 May 2022 06:17:31(UTC)
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Saville talks about the Der Film poster in Designed By Peter Saville, published in 2003. He says his New Order sleeves up to that point had been an exploration of 20th century art, and by using black and white photos of the band and a font similar to Helvetica he'd then caught up to the band present day.

The Perfect Kiss 12" is all about 4 color printing, which I see as an ironic joke since the album and singles are black and white: the cover is silver/grey, or 50% black and 50% white, and the four variant inner sleeves are cyan, magenta, yellow, and black.

The 7" was released in two variations: standard 7" edit (as on Singles) release concurrent with the 12", then later with the shorter Ivan Ivan edits. These are bundled in Recycle.
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Rorschach  
#27 Posted : 02 May 2022 06:37:40(UTC)
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IIRC, Saville stated that all the images on the Republic LP were stock photos - that was the thing he was into at the time. These images were then re-used / supplemented / combined for the singles.
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Fotz  
#28 Posted : 02 May 2022 07:46:38(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post


The 7" was released in two variations: standard 7" edit (as on Singles) release concurrent with the 12", then later with the shorter Ivan Ivan edits. These are bundled in Recycle.



Ah, that'll be where i obtained the Ivan Ivan edits from.Thanks 50poundnote.I am at an utter loss to how i didn't know those edits had formed an official UK 7" release in November 1985.
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Debaser  
#29 Posted : 02 May 2022 08:06:45(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post

The 7" was released in two variations: standard 7" edit (as on Singles) release concurrent with the 12",


I'm struggling to see this release* on Disocgs for UK Factory. Is it there?



* excluding white labels/promo/test pressing

Edited by user 02 May 2022 08:10:34(UTC)  | Reason: *

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
50poundnote  
#30 Posted : 02 May 2022 11:46:41(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
I'm struggling to see this release* on Disocgs for UK Factory. Is it there?


Discogs isn't without error - it's crowdsourced, just like Wikipedia. It relies on peoples' general knowledge. Can you recall what day you bought a record 37 years ago? :)

Plus, as haphazard as Factory was, they probably wouldn't have precise release dates for their own titles, even if that documentation still exists in 2022. TPK was released on 7" in other territories at or around the same time as the 12"; I don't see why the UK would be any different. I know for a fact I had a UK copy of the first 7" before Subculture came out.
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Debaser  
#31 Posted : 02 May 2022 12:06:42(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
I'm struggling to see this release* on Disocgs for UK Factory. Is it there?


Discogs isn't without error - it's crowdsourced, just like Wikipedia. It relies on peoples' general knowledge.


Am aware of that, but I cannot see a single listing for a 7" UK release of TPK other than promo versions or the later Ivan Ivan edit. Seems odd.

*EDIT* BTW does anyone know why the Ivan Ivan edit was released nearly 6 months later?

Edited by user 02 May 2022 12:18:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
50poundnote  
#32 Posted : 02 May 2022 12:33:19(UTC)
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I'm just saying the introductory paragraph on the master page likely contains errors. Someone may have overlooked adding the standard 7". More likely, it was there, then someone else went in and modified it to be the Ivan Ivan variation, changing the release date. Someone may also be wrong about the Ivan Ivan versions coming out that much later.

official charts.com says it reached a peak position of 46 in the UK on May 25, 1985.

Edited by user 02 May 2022 12:37:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
perspexorange  
#33 Posted : 03 May 2022 02:46:28(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post

Factory Records, the Complete Graphic Album, AKA FAC 461. That's probably where you read it. Go to page 88 (might be a different page on the re-released, re-packaged version):

Quote:
...multi-layered composition is further enhanced by the over-printed text on the cover (which is a direct quotation of Josef Muller Brockmann's Der Film poster of 1960). The vertical orientation of the text was carried across to Fac 123 (see p91) where it is blind embossed.

Fac 123 is of course, TPK.



Thanks for this D! Great spot!
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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Fotz  
#34 Posted : 03 May 2022 10:49:31(UTC)
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So was there a sleeve for that November 1985 official UK release of the TPK 7" that you've all only just got round to telling me about ? Was it a miniature of the 12" sleeve or just a generic plain black or white?
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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
50poundnote  
#35 Posted : 03 May 2022 12:41:49(UTC)
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From Recycle (posted in 2009 before the deluxe editions were released):

The Perfect Kiss
Factory Records FAC 123
Produced New Order
May 1985

Tracklisting:

1. The Perfect Kiss
2. The Kiss Of Death
3. Perfect Pit
4. The Perfect Kiss (7" Edit)
5. The Kiss Of Death (7" Edit)
6. The Perfect Kiss (Ivan Ivan Edit)
7. The Kiss Of Death (Ivan Ivan Edit)
8. The Perfect Kiss (Live Video Version)

1, 2, and 3 sourced from Rough Trade DE 45 RPM 12" single FAC 123/RTD 022T
4 edited from album version, sourced from London Low-Life CD 8573 81313-2
5, 6, and 7 edited from elements of 1, 2, and 3
8 sourced from A Collection DVD

Notes from Bruce:

12" EQ matched to Substance.
4 with considerable bass added to make it fit in better
8 massive high cut and low boost, channels re-synced, phase on highs corrected, extra treble on right channel

This was much more work than I expected. It seems many UK copies have the A-side pressed off-centre, which causes a slight but noticeable wow/pitch fluctuation. I didn't want to gouge out the spindle hole on 50 Pound Note's copy to correct this, so I used my German copy (which I bought new sometime in the early 90s) instead.

The single edits were another matter entirely. As far as we can tell, the first UK single version was simply the album mix coupled with the 5-minute edit of Kiss Of Death on the flip. Since I expect any serious New Order fan already has a copy of Low-Life, I saw no reason in including that here. Anyway, apparently this was withdrawn and replaced with the much shorter Ivan Ivan edits. Outside of the UK, it seems the version released is what I'm presenting here as the" 7" edit. This is the album version with some very minor edits, and the five-minute Kiss Of Death (titled Perfect Kiss Instrumental on some copies) on the flip. I've heard of another withdrawn UK 7" version that supposedly contains unique elements not found anywhere else... but as I've yet to actually hear this, I'm not sure it exists.

The video of the song simply shows the band playing the song in their studio (filmed by Jonathan Demme). What's interesting is that unlike most videos, they're not lip-syncing to the album; they're actually playing the song live, so we've decided to include that here. The video version posed all sorts of problems for me: one channel slightly delayed, phase problems, really messed-up EQ (with less treble on the right channel)... I've been able to fix most of this, but there's still a bit of a comb-filter effect that I can't fix, and the phase between the two channels shifts around a bit at first. And then there's the fact that it sounds like it's out of tune compared to the album and single versions...

...at first, I assumed that the video version was likely playing at the wrong speed, since pitch often goes out the window when videos are converted from film 24 FPS to 25 FPS PAL TV broadcast, or from PAL to NTSC 29.97 FPS. And it's unlikely that the band would retune all their instruments for one song.

But upon closer examination, it turns out that the video is at concert pitch. The album and single versions play about 20 cents flat.

I considered the possibility that the album and single versions had been unwittingly slowed down. This sort of thing is rare, but it does happen (for example, every single copy of Miles Davis' landmark jazz LP Kind Of Blue made until the mid-90s has one side playing half a semitone sharp). Then I discovered that the video and album/single versions, though not in tune, are in near-perfect sync. If you pitch up the album (or slow down the video) they're in tune but they don't stay in sync at all. Since the song has sequencers and drum machines driving the tempo, it would seem unlikely that there would be any tempo variations between versions unless the band wanted them. The best guess I can come up with is that after recording the song, they decided the tempo was slightly too fast, and back then, the only way to address that was to slow the tape down, or re-record the entire song. Thing is, the difference isn't really significant... but it sure does sound rather jarring to hear the album and then the video.
Truly an epic New Order track, The Perfect Kiss has everything that made the band famous: dark lyrics, driving synth chords, automated rhythms, and a long duration that builds into an incredible climax. It's also got a touch of daftness with the non-sequitur of sampled frogs in the middle. :) It marked the first time that a New Order single appeared on one of their albums, although the version on Low-Life is much shorter and a slightly different mix. This version starts to fade out just as the track is reaching its emotional peak.

Surprisingly, the full-length version has never appeared on CD. The version on Substance has about 40 seconds edited out (my favorite part of the song), supposedly done due to timing limits on earlier CDs. This has never been corrected, and the track has never appeared in full anywhere else. So, enjoy it here in its full glory.

From Jeb:

This is my favorite song of all time. The full-length version was the first New Order song I ever heard, but it would take another 18 months before things clicked and I started to really get into them. I used to mow lawns after school, and New Order become a constant companion on my Walkman. This song really captured my imagination, and because I hadn't seen the video (and wouldn't until 1989) I'd developed a really elaborate short film in my head that included things like a film noir plot with German dialogue and English subtitles!

The majestic synth jam at the end of the song - particularly starting at the 7:04 mark - still gives me chills 24 years later. When I got to hear it live at Wembley in '06, I nearly cried.
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50poundnote  
#36 Posted : 03 May 2022 12:47:50(UTC)
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FWIW what we presented as the 7" Edit in Recycle is the same as the U.S. 7" Edit on Singles and simply the 7" Edit on Total.
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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Fotz  
#37 Posted : 03 May 2022 14:55:44(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
So was there a sleeve for that November 1985 official UK release of the TPK 7" that you've all only just got round to telling me about ? Was it a miniature of the 12" sleeve or just a generic plain black or white?


Looked in the folder for 50poundnote's Recycle on my laptop and the image is there for the 7".So a generic black sleeve, then.That's answered my question.Thanks 50poundnote and thanks again for your mighty Recycle job.

Listened again to the Ivan Ivan edit of The Kiss Of Death in the TPK folder of Recycle.Bit mad that edit in't it? .A bit all over the place but bonkers brilliant.You can never go wrong with a bit of cowbell and some all over the shop editingSmile

I feel this thread has gone way off topic though.

Edited by user 03 May 2022 15:19:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#38 Posted : 04 May 2022 11:54:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
FWIW what we presented as the 7" Edit in Recycle is the same as the U.S. 7" Edit on Singles and simply the 7" Edit on Total.

Actually, the versions of the 4:25 edit on both Total and Singles (Remastered) are both unique and aren't identical to the 7 inch that appears on the vinyl.

For clarity, I'm comparing them to my copy of the Factory Benelux 7FBN 123 seven inch (here at Discogs). If you listen carefully, you'll hear:

Total edit:
• Slight (tape?) wobble in the edit when the main track kicks in at 0:02 - not present on the Low-life or vinyl 7" versions
• More noticable edit at the start of the 3rd bar after the chorus at 1:04
• Slight tape wobble on the edit at 2:07
• Section after the second chorus with Barney's guitar that starts at 2:07 and ends with the crunchy sounding synth solo is twice as long on this version (crunchy synth comes in at 2:21 on this edit - it comes in at 2:14 on the vinyl 7" edit). On this Total edit it's 8 bars long - on the vinyl 7" it's only 4 bars
• Frog croaks and dreamy chords come in immediately after the crunchy synth at 2:51 - on the vinyl 7" there's four bars of drums first from 2:44

Singles (Remastered) edit:
• Same (tape?) wobble in the edit when the main track kicks in at 0:02 as can be heard in the Total version
• Noticably different edit after the second chorus at 2:06 (no clipped "wwhhh" at the start of Barney singling "when you are alone", which can be heard on the Low-life and 7" versions)

I can only speculate that there were several attempts to edit a 7" version back then, and the wrong edits were selected from various master tapes when Total and Singles (Remastered) were compiled.

So the both vinyl 7" versions still remain unreleased digitally - the FBN edit and the UK Ivan Ivan edit.

Edited by user 04 May 2022 22:18:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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perspexorange  
#39 Posted : 06 January 2024 08:22:36(UTC)
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Managed to find a copy of 'The Cambridge Encyclopædia Of Astronomy (1977)'online, so have uploaded the images here:

pg. 111

UserPostedImage

pg. 290

UserPostedImage

pg. 291

UserPostedImage

Nice to finally see the Transmission 7" cover image how it originally appeared.

Anybody know where the back cover of the 7" and the two images on the 12" first appeared?

According to the 'An Ideal For Living' book:

"The back of the (7") sleeve is a photo found by Joy Division of a ball bearing being dropped through an electrical current. Saville, showing much the same perversity as the band, decided that putting the more spectacular picture on the back would be a novelty —and appropriate to the B-side. The 12", which was issued much later (probably due ot DJ requests), has the same feel as the 7" but features time-exposures of a fairground at night taken by photographer Charles Herring.'

Edited by user 06 January 2024 08:23:44(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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perspexorange  
#40 Posted : 06 January 2024 08:24:45(UTC)
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No idea why the images aren't showing in my post. Seems iI messed up the page numbers too.

Here are the direct links:

pg. 111

https://i.postimg.cc/pdT...R/temp-Imagew-Jp-RTf.jpg

pg. 290

https://i.postimg.cc/QMy...65/temp-Imageem-WTGE.jpg

pg.291

https://i.postimg.cc/tTn...fc/temp-Imageo-XYBIs.jpg

Edited by user 06 January 2024 08:27:41(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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