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perspexorange  
#1 Posted : 05 August 2019 11:14:06(UTC)
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Anyone happen to know what gig the footage from the 'State Of The Nation' video was taken from?

Here's the video, in case you've not seen it:
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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
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Johnny James  
#2 Posted : 05 August 2019 11:39:31(UTC)
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Two gigs...

06 Oct 86 - Royal Albert Hall, London
13 Oct 86 - The Hacienda, Manchester
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perspexorange on 05/08/2019(UTC), 79order on 08/08/2019(UTC), Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#3 Posted : 05 August 2019 11:59:59(UTC)
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Brilliant! Thanks Johnny. I knew you'd know! :-)
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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#4 Posted : 05 August 2019 12:05:16(UTC)
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Actually, whilst we're on the subject of videos, any idea which gigs the 'BLT' and 'Run 2' footage is taken from?

Edited by user 05 August 2019 12:19:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
Johnny James  
#5 Posted : 05 August 2019 12:51:55(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Actually, whilst we're on the subject of videos, any idea which gigs the 'BLT' and 'Run 2' footage is taken from?


BLT is Greetings 4 Festival, Valdarno (29 June 86).
Run is Irvine Meadows (16 & 18 June 89), also perhaps a little from the gig between them (Aztec Bowl). There exists various bits and pieces from all three nights.

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perspexorange on 05/08/2019(UTC), Andy on 07/08/2019(UTC), Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
50 Pound Note  
#6 Posted : 05 August 2019 12:57:39(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
BLT is Greetings 4 Festival, Valdarno (29 June 86).
Run is Irvine Meadows (16 & 18 June 89), also perhaps a little from the gig between them (Aztec Bowl). There exists various bits and pieces from all three nights.


So what you're saying is you're gathering all this together for the Brotherhood and Technique definitive edition boxes? Big Grin
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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#7 Posted : 05 August 2019 13:02:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50 Pound Note Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
BLT is Greetings 4 Festival, Valdarno (29 June 86).
Run is Irvine Meadows (16 & 18 June 89), also perhaps a little from the gig between them (Aztec Bowl). There exists various bits and pieces from all three nights.


So what you're saying is you're gathering all this together for the Brotherhood and Technique definitive edition boxes? Big Grin


I bloody well hope so! Big Grin

The mind boggles as to what material is available. Really hope we get to see a tonne of it.

Again, many thanks for the info, JJ!
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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
Johnny James  
#8 Posted : 05 August 2019 14:18:58(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50 Pound Note Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
BLT is Greetings 4 Festival, Valdarno (29 June 86).
Run is Irvine Meadows (16 & 18 June 89), also perhaps a little from the gig between them (Aztec Bowl). There exists various bits and pieces from all three nights.


So what you're saying is you're gathering all this together for the Brotherhood and Technique definitive edition boxes? Big Grin


I'm certainly trying to locate anything that could be used. Valdarno isn't much use, the 1989 stuff might be ;)


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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#9 Posted : 05 August 2019 14:58:17(UTC)
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Yay! Exciting stuff!

Just make sure you don’t miss putting the Big World Café appearance on to the Technique disc. ;-)
Love that performance.
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Mark on 06/08/2019(UTC), 79order on 08/08/2019(UTC), Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
Johnny James  
#10 Posted : 05 August 2019 15:09:45(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Yay! Exciting stuff!

Just make sure you don’t miss putting the Big World Café appearance on to the Technique disc. ;-)
Love that performance.


There is an issue with that, the 1" master for that particular program is missing! Check the BFI database. I've asked around and nothing so far.

Related to that, which episode had Dream Attack on? Was it the last of the series?

BFI identifier 350033
Title Big World Cafe - Extra Special! (Original)
Date 1989-08-28 (Television)
Synopsis - Compilation of the best moments from the last series of BIG WORLD CAFE. (Synopsis)
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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#11 Posted : 06 August 2019 04:43:18(UTC)
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I’m convinced that Dream Attack was on that 28/08/93 ‘best of’ programme, based on the credits and the descriptions in various newspapers of the time.
Myself and Fotzepolitic did a bit of investigating on this. I can’t remember our exact logic for stating this date but I think it was based on Fotz’s memory and me doing some checking of old newspaper scans.
The consensus of opinion was that DA probably only made an appearance on the ‘highlights’ show in the Summer; not during the normal programme ‘run’ earlier in the year.

I’m not at my PC at the mo but, when I’m home, I’ll check and see what the logic was and post later.

I have some quite detailed notes on TV appearances, so if there’s any other dates etc., you’re after just let me know.
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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#12 Posted : 06 August 2019 05:37:16(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
I’m convinced that Dream Attack was on that 28/08/93 ‘best of’ programme, based on the credits and the descriptions in various newspapers of the time.
Myself and Fotzepolitic did a bit of investigating on this. I can’t remember our exact logic for stating this date but I think it was based on Fotz’s memory and me doing some checking of old newspaper scans.
The consensus of opinion was that DA probably only made an appearance on the ‘highlights’ show in the Summer; not during the normal programme ‘run’ earlier in the year.

I’m not at my PC at the mo but, when I’m home, I’ll check and see what the logic was and post later.

I have some quite detailed notes on TV appearances, so if there’s any other dates etc., you’re after just let me know.



28.08.89, not 28.08.93. I’m guessing that 93 was just a typo by your goodself, P.

Yeah I always remembered as the 28.08.89 ( the August Bank Holiday Monday) date as me seeing the Dream Attack clip first, in a highlights edition of Big World Cafe. It was a good few months after the series and NO’s appearance with Run and Vanishing Point ( and was R&R also played too?)had been on. Think you confirmed this 28.08.89 highlights programme through and old tv schedule archive thing,P? The highlights prog on 28.08.89 had one or two previously unaired performances from the series, one of which was NO doing Dream Attack.

As for the State Of The Nation video; so the video was made and released some time after the single was released ( in UK at least) then? The single was released in September 86 but the gigs the footage is taken from wasn’t til October 86 and the video release later after that? Don’t think I ever saw it til a few years after the single was around.

Edited by user 06 August 2019 05:41:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#13 Posted : 06 August 2019 07:09:52(UTC)
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Dammit. This is what happens when I try to post between meetings.

Yep - just ignore me. I’m usually far more careful than this.

My bad. Sorry.
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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#14 Posted : 06 August 2019 09:42:42(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

The consensus of opinion was that DA probably only made an appearance on the ‘highlights’ show in the Summer; not during the normal programme ‘run’ earlier in the year.

I’m not at my PC at the mo but, when I’m home, I’ll check and see what the logic was and post later.


OK. Back home, and better prepared.
Warning! Trainspotter Approaching!

First Appearance
I believe that the first appearance was on 26/02/89. This episode showed the band perform three tracks; 'Vanishing Point', 'Round & Round' and 'Run'. The first track was shown at the very start of the programme during the opening credits. The other two songs were shown a bit later in the episode (hence why, during the on-screen text during 'VP', it says 'two portions of New Order'). I also have a copy of the performance which includes the presenter introducing the second part with the words 'we're going to give you a little bit more of New Order' or similar.

Second Appearance
Based on Fotz's recollections and some digging through newspaper scans, we believe that this was on 28/08/89, on an 'Extra Special' edition of the programme (shown, presumably, after the main run had ended in the Spring). 'Dream Attack' was shown on this programme, sadly with both the start and end cut.

Myself and Fotz have kind of convinced ourselves that 'Dream Attack' wasn't shown on a previous programme.
Our assumptions were based on the following:

a) Fotzepolitic's recollections that the Summer show was the first time 'Dream Attack' had been shown.

b) The only clips of 'Dream Attack' either of us have seen (from multiple sources) are ones where the clip cuts off to a 'Roachford' performance (or ones edited to remove this 'cut away'). Roachford's performance was shown about four weeks after New Order (on 26/03/89). So the 'Dream Attack' clip had to be either from that Roachford show (but see (c) below) or a 'highlights' show.

c) Lastly, in the middle of 'Dream Attack', there’s on-screen text which mentions about Technique going straight to number 1 in the charts ‘earlier in the year’.
It seems unlikely that this text would be included on a clip shown on the 'Roachford show' on 26/03/89 (only four weeks after the NO show, when Technique was still flying high in the charts).

So, that 'Dream Attack' clip that has a) a ‘cut away’ to Roachford and b) the ‘earlier in the year’ text, has really got to be from the highlights show that was shown on 28/08/89. This chimes with Fotz’s keen memory of that day’s showing.

And based on the fact that none of us have ever seen a different clip than the one above, we made the assumption that there was only that one ‘Summer’ showing of ‘Dream Attack’. If another showing existed, chances are somebody would've posted it online by now.

And just to be really anally-retentive, here are some scans of TV guides from the days in question (Dear Lord, I'm sad!):

The listing for NO's first performance on Channel 4, Sunday 26/02/89:

UserPostedImage

Two listings for Roachford's performance on Channel 4, Sunday 26/03/89 (kind of confirming that NO weren't on this show):

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage

And, finally, the listing for the 'Extra Special' on Channel 4, Monday, 28/08/89 (sadly it doesn't say who was featured on this):

UserPostedImage


Phew! 😊 Trainspotting over.
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Fotzepolitic  
#15 Posted : 06 August 2019 10:00:36(UTC)
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^ Yep, agreed with all the above.Also, I was never a big fan of that Big World Cafe show and recall only tuning into the 28.08.89 highlights show because I’d seen a trailer for it the day before or something that mentioned there would be a previously unaired performance from New Order.
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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
Johnny James  
#16 Posted : 06 August 2019 11:37:41(UTC)
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I figured it might be that one, the BFI doesn't have enough details (they are where the masters are kept). They do have a master for that extras episode and only a VHS of the main New Order episode.
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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#17 Posted : 06 August 2019 11:55:35(UTC)
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I love that BWC appearance.
Technique was when I really got into the band, so any TV appearances around that time really 'float my boat'.

So, personally speaking, I'd be happy with VHS quality. But I guess it just depends on how crappy it might look on DVD.
Damn shame that it's been misplaced.

Just trying to think of other TV appearances at the time that you could use instead. There aren't many live TV performances from the '88-'90 period:

26/02/88 Palarock Festival (True Faith)
15/12/88 Top Of The Pops (Fine Time)
26/02/89 The Other Side Of Midnight (The Happy One)
16/03/89 Top Of The Pops (Round & Round)

(I guess you could go back to 1987 depending on whether you're doing a 'Substance' box - TOTP (True Faith), Les Enfants du Rock (Paradise & BLT), A2 (Live in Paris) etc.).

Alternatively, there's some nice interviews / documentaries from the era.
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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
Andy  
#18 Posted : 07 August 2019 23:21:11(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Actually, whilst we're on the subject of videos, any idea which gigs the 'BLT' and 'Run 2' footage is taken from?


BLT is Greetings 4 Festival, Valdarno (29 June 86).
Run is Irvine Meadows (16 & 18 June 89), also perhaps a little from the gig between them (Aztec Bowl). There exists various bits and pieces from all three nights.



Thank you. I always wondered about that Run video footage. I was at the Irvine gig on June 16th.
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Rocket Mick on 15/10/2019(UTC)
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