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petezarustica  
#1 Posted : 02 August 2019 15:24:12(UTC)
petezarustica

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Hi folks,

Found an unusual version of True Faith in a 1986 (not 1987, 1986!!!) Polygram double Cassette promo.

It's called "Extended November" and it features various tracks - New Order plus MARRS, Gene Loves Jezebel, Love And Rcokets Curiosity Killed The Cat.... and many many more

On the New Order bit (3rd track, First tape, first side) it says:

True Faith 7" Remix
adapted from the factory 7"/12" single,
specially-priced two c.d. set, longplay
cassette and double album
"Substance"

On hearing it, it's a very interesting mix. It sounds a rough mix, with drums first, then synth and synth bass, then hookys hook mixed with the chorus line (the high pitch melody) - then vocals kick.
It also has a very cool sample at the beginning that was removed later (some film dialogue - Children... you better clear out the broken glass and all this debris. all and all I say we've been very lucky around here... nothing to do now but wait for orders from the authorities and relax...)

Interesting bits,

  • it's from November 86
  • different mix than others (but no new elements apart from intro sample)
  • "adapted" from 7"/12"


Does anyone know of it? Oh also it's not like the Polygram Holiday Sampler

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Fotzepolitic on 02/08/2019(UTC), Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
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Fotzepolitic  
#2 Posted : 02 August 2019 16:54:41(UTC)
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be interested to hear that
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#3 Posted : 02 August 2019 18:51:57(UTC)
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Me too.

I was always under the impression that the song wasn’t written until 1987, not long before its debut at Glastonbury in June of that year.
So an appearance on a 1986 promo is very surprising.

It’s also a bit weird that they would refer to the 7”, 12” and ’Substance’ several months or so before they were released (9 months in the case of ‘Substance’). Factory were rarely that organised.
Also, according to Hooky’s book, ‘True Faith’ was recorded in June 1987 (which seems likely), so I can’t see that this mix could’ve been ‘adapted’ from the 7” / 12” back in November 1986.

I therefore wonder if the promo has been mislabelled. I’m guessing it should say 11/87.

Still, very interesting and I’d love to hear it.

Edited by user 02 August 2019 19:11:03(UTC)  | Reason: Added details about TF recording date.

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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
Debaser  
#4 Posted : 03 August 2019 03:15:58(UTC)
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audio + pics of the tape would be good!
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
NotAMod  
#5 Posted : 03 August 2019 06:39:11(UTC)
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1986 really does not fit the established/verified chronology of when True Faith was written and recorded.

As is documented and verified in numerous places the lyrics weren't even written until the June 1987 recording session with Hague (the band famously locking Bernard in the flat until the next day) so I find it really hard to believe there was a promo version floating around in late '86 with a 'vocal kicking in' unless it was a completely different set of words.

A picture of the item and a 30 second sample of audio would really help the credibility of this. Or as others have noted it may simply be an 87 promo mislabelled as 86.

I don't think True Faith existed in 1986 other than very possibly as a collection of yet-to-be-assembled riffs.
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
depthcharge  
#6 Posted : 03 August 2019 07:14:12(UTC)
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1987 if anything.

Even Discogs doesn’t appear to know this promo.

The movie quote was legit.

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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
50poundnote  
#7 Posted : 03 August 2019 09:17:42(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: depthcharge Go to Quoted Post
Even Discogs doesn’t appear to know this promo.


Was going to say the same thing. Even going beyond Discogs, I can only find one mention, but it doesn't give a tracklist.

Originally Posted by: depthcharge Go to Quoted Post
The movie quote was legit.


If this was intended to be an in-store promo cassette, the sample may be something added to link songs together. Meaning, there's similar dialogue between other songs, and it's not a sample the band used (or it was placed there by whoever created this edit).
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
petezarustica  
#8 Posted : 03 August 2019 09:36:43(UTC)
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There's no other samples between tracks and this one echoes into the track.

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBD_i69XUAAd8C9?format=jpg[/img]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBD_i7CWwAEJr0z?format=jpg&name=large[/img]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBD_i69WkAEUrY-?format=jpg&name=large[/img]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBD_i68WsAAPlUk?format=jpg&name=large[/img]



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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
50poundnote  
#9 Posted : 03 August 2019 10:22:35(UTC)
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SAMC 086 is the catalog number, not the year.

The Rainmakers' Tornado, released late summer 1987
John Cougar Mellencamp's The Lonesome Jubilee, released August 24, 1987
Substance, released August 17, 1987
"Pump Up The Volume" released August 3, 1987
Curiosity Killed The Cat's Keep Your Distance, released April 1987
Double's Dou3le, released late summer 1987

True Faith 7" Remix is going to be The Morning Sun Edit, which was only released on the hard to find Video CD FACDV 183, on a Canadian promo 7", a U.S. promo CD for radio stations, and likely one or two other places. We included it in the Recycle project.

I'm betting the sample was placed there by whoever compiled the cassette.

Edited by user 03 August 2019 10:29:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
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#10 Posted : 03 August 2019 10:31:23(UTC)
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Will it looks like a promo-only tape. Not for the general public or record stores, IMHO.
These tracks all appear to be 1987 tracks. I wonder if, even though it says SAMC 086, did it actually appear in (Nov) 1987?
Is there any small print on there with a definite year on either the tape or the inlay card?
Can you find a way of putting this on mega.nz or mediafire etc?


EDIT: I guess this sort of duplicates what £50 said, I didn't see his reply before I posted mine.

Edited by user 03 August 2019 10:32:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
50poundnote  
#11 Posted : 03 August 2019 10:32:44(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: petezarustica Go to Quoted Post
drums first, then synth and synth bass, then hookys hook mixed with the chorus line (the high pitch melody) - then vocals kick.


Definitely The Morning Sun Edit.
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#12 Posted : 03 August 2019 10:38:44(UTC)
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Agreed with all of the above.
Was going to mention the M/A/R/R/S track. That was released in August 1987. It seems very doubtful that a record company would’ve held onto a record of that significance for that long.
If it was in the company's hands in November ‘86, it’d’ve been released by Christmas. Sure as eggs.

The other tracks that Mr £50 note mentioned also confirm this. The tape must be mislabelled.

Still, I’d love to hear it. To hear the sample and just to confirm whether or not it is the standard 7” remix from the CDV.

Please post to YouTube or a file sharing site if you can.
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#13 Posted : 03 August 2019 13:23:25(UTC)
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Easy way to identify it as the 7 Inch Remix edit of Shep Pettibone version is if it has the truncated chorus with the lyrics that make no sense: "My morning sun is a drug that brings me near, that my life would depend on the morning sun". Always hated that edit in each chorus of that mix - ruined that version completely.
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Rorschach on 04/08/2019(UTC), Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
Sage_  
#14 Posted : 03 August 2019 21:52:58(UTC)
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chuck in on Youtube or Soundcloud.
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#15 Posted : 04 August 2019 00:28:19(UTC)
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Petzarustica, can you check out this video of The Morning Sun Remix 7 Inch on YouTube and confirm if it's the same version (minus the intro quote) please?
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
indiearchivist  
#16 Posted : 08 August 2019 14:16:08(UTC)
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That version is also the standard US 7" version -- I've always wondered if there's a video clip to go with it, but the common video for the US seems to be the same as the UK one (i.e. the non-remixed version)?
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#17 Posted : 09 August 2019 04:13:44(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: indiearchivist Go to Quoted Post
That version is also the standard US 7" version -- I've always wondered if there's a video clip to go with it, but the common video for the US seems to be the same as the UK one (i.e. the non-remixed version)?

I can't find a record of any non-promo 7" version of True Faith released in 1987 in the US - looks like only 12" was released in the US. I'd be surprised if the 7" Remix Edit was the official single version in the US, as it was such an odd edit.

Which US 7" release are you referring to?
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#18 Posted : 09 August 2019 04:29:13(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: indiearchivist Go to Quoted Post
That version is also the standard US 7" version -- I've always wondered if there's a video clip to go with it, but the common video for the US seems to be the same as the UK one (i.e. the non-remixed version)?

I can't find a record of any non-promo 7" version of True Faith released in 1987 in the US - looks like only 12" was released in the US. I'd be surprised if the 7" Remix Edit was the official single version in the US, as it was such an odd edit.

Which US 7" release are you referring to?

Ah, maybe you refer to this US 7" - but what does "SRC Pressing" mean?
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
50 Pound Note  
#19 Posted : 09 August 2019 07:26:42(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
what does "SRC Pressing" mean?


I'd forgotten The Morning Sun Edit was the standard U.S. 7"...maybe that's why the Qwest promo CD was highly sought after in those early eBay days, when the Factory CDV was even harder to find.

SRC means it was pressed by Specialty Records Corporation. Scroll down for the notes.

It was also pressed by Allied Record Company.
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#20 Posted : 09 August 2019 09:54:52(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
Easy way to identify it as the 7 Inch Remix edit of Shep Pettibone version is if it has the truncated chorus with the lyrics that make no sense: "My morning sun is a drug that brings me near, that my life would depend on the morning sun". Always hated that edit in each chorus of that mix - ruined that version completely.


I do own a copy of that True Faith CDV.Can't remember where or when i bought it , must have been late 80s/early 90s.I only ever played Evil Dust from it though i did have that on the original compilation album it was released on.I gave the TF 7" remix a spin the other day.I can't ever recall listening to it for some reason but god yeah, you're right, that editing of the lyrics is shocking.The words end up making no sense.

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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#21 Posted : 09 August 2019 11:33:59(UTC)
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I bought both the 'True Faith' CDV and the 'Blue Monday 1988' CDV from HMV Manchester, at separate times. Back in 1990-1, I think.

I bought the 'True Faith' one first as I had no idea what 'Evil Dust' was and wanted to find out. I also wanted the 12" remix of 'True Faith' on CD and this was the only way to get it at the time.
I was pleasantly surprised that the '7 Inch' on the disc was different from the standard 7" version. Although it wasn't the greatest mix (due to those vocal edits mentioned), in an age where I wanted every single mix, it was nice to have something fairly unique.

I dragged my feet in buying the 'Blue Monday 1988' CDV simply because, on the face of it, it didn't seem to have anything exclusive on it (unlike the 'True Faith' one). It looked like it contained exactly the same tracks as the standard CD single (which I already had). Again though, I was very pleasantly surprised to find, when I did buy it, that 'Beach Buggy' was actually the 'Blue Monday 1988 - Dub Version' (which I had on 12" promo, but not CD) and the '7 Inch' was actually an exclusive version of the 7".

So, all in all, these two CDVs were pretty cool releases. Typical Factory though - ballsing up the track listings (they were especially bad around this time - Mesh/Cries & Whispers on 'Substance'; 'Temptation (Original Version)' on 'Touched' CD etc.).

I've still never seen the videos on either disc, so not sure if there's any variation to these (like that different version of the 'True Faith' video) or any unique title screens etc.
I doubt that many people will have seen them. For all we know, they might contain home videos of Lord Lucan riding Shergar.
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
Alexey Fyodorovich  
#22 Posted : 10 August 2019 15:30:05(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

I dragged my feet in buying the 'Blue Monday 1988' CDV simply because, on the face of it, it didn't seem to have anything exclusive on it (unlike the 'True Faith' one). It looked like it contained exactly the same tracks as the standard CD single (which I already had). Again though, I was very pleasantly surprised to find, when I did buy it, that 'Beach Buggy' was actually the 'Blue Monday 1988 - Dub Version' (which I had on 12" promo, but not CD) and the '7 Inch' was actually an exclusive version of the 7".


Speaking of the Blue Monday 1988 CDV, my copy has the track indices shifted back by a fraction of a second so that all three tracks are missing a small bit of audio at the beginning (and consequently that small bit of audio appears at the very end of the preceding track).

Anybody else have a copy with this issue?
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
NotAMod  
#23 Posted : 11 August 2019 03:22:56(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Alexey Fyodorovich Go to Quoted Post
Speaking of the Blue Monday 1988 CDV, my copy has the track indices shifted back by a fraction of a second so that all three tracks are missing a small bit of audio at the beginning (and consequently that small bit of audio appears at the very end of the preceding track).

Anybody else have a copy with this issue?


Yup, my copy has the same issue.

I corrected it a few years ago by ripping the CDV as one long WAV file, re-editing it with the correct track markers and burning back to CDr.

This allowed me to take a digital copy minus the track index issues.
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Alexey Fyodorovich on 11/08/2019(UTC), Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#24 Posted : 11 August 2019 06:41:23(UTC)
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1986 sounds a tad dubious to me. I have vague recollections of reading an interview with the Barnster where he said that he was under pressure to write a strong single cos of the financial probs that year. And stylistically it's not very Brotherhoody.
I really like Shep Pettilyboned's mix back then, but it's mega-dated now (file under Con-om-fus-ars-ion). Perfecto is one of the very few worthwhile things from that London binge, and the fact that they play it live means they weren't totally uninvolved.
The funny thig is that my first exposure to 'Best Of' was TF Perfecto and 1963 - Baker. I thought they were the 94 mixes and Hague had actually bothered to do some original thinking. Sadly...
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Rocket Mick on 16/10/2019(UTC)
Alexey Fyodorovich  
#25 Posted : 11 August 2019 13:34:30(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NotAMod Go to Quoted Post

Yup, my copy has the same issue.

I corrected it a few years ago by ripping the CDV as one long WAV file, re-editing it with the correct track markers and burning back to CDr.

This allowed me to take a digital copy minus the track index issues.


Great, thank you! I performed a similar procedure when ripping the tracks to my iPod. I had wanted to add this information to the Discogs page for this item but wanted to confirm at least somebody else was affected before doing so.

Edit: I have added the info in question to https://www.discogs.com/release/882345

Edited by user 11 August 2019 13:40:43(UTC)  | Reason: Adding note about adding info to Discogs entry

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