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Wax  
#1 Posted : 23 July 2019 07:26:37(UTC)
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A little perplexed as to why one of their most important albums ever released – especially in America – is practically unavailable in a digital format in the states.

I've seen it rereleased on vinyl but nothing else. Can anyone explain?
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50 Pound Note  
#2 Posted : 23 July 2019 08:26:44(UTC)
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It's been out of print for years.

I guess the assumption is Singles replaced Substance, and the 12" versions are available on the deluxe editions from 2009. Build your own playlist, but it won't include the re-recorded versions of Temptation or Confusion.

This is why I will never, ever adopt streaming.

Because the remastered 12" singles were not included in the Movement box, and a Power, Corruption & Lies box appears to be coming in November, I'm hopeful we'll have a comprehensive Substance box in the first half of 2021 (Low-life and Brotherhood in 2020).
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NotAMod  
#3 Posted : 23 July 2019 10:51:57(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50 Pound Note Go to Quoted Post
Because the remastered 12" singles were not included in the Movement box, and a Power, Corruption & Lies box appears to be coming in November, I'm hopeful we'll have a comprehensive Substance box in the first half of 2021 (Low-life and Brotherhood in 2020).


This ^ or at least if I were a betting man (which I'm not) although I doubt it will be a box... more likely a straightforward Vinyl/2CD/streaming reissue with fresh audio.

As we all know Substance 1987 arguably sold a bucket load back in the day introducing the band to a world-wide audience beyond anything previous LPs had provided. It would be fairly mind-boggling if they were not to give it a new lease of life in some form.

I reckon they're following the same trajectory as Joy Division when it comes to Substance 1987. If you remember when JD's reissue campaign back in 2007 it took until 8 years later for their Substance to appear in remastered form. I'm seeing a cleanly packaged new Substance 1987 edition appearing somewhere between the Brotherhood & Technique definitive edition box sets. Possibly before although we're beyond any x0 or x5 anniversary dates by a little bit.

Once it's reissued it will hit streaming services... I agree with £50 this is why I don't get the approach of abandoning physical collections wholesale for streaming then bemoaning a lack of choice.

As things stand the closest Substance 1987 has had to a reissue recently is in t-shirt form via H&M (I've got 2 and they're very nice!)
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perspexorange  
#4 Posted : 23 July 2019 12:34:17(UTC)
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I'd love for a Substance 1987 reissue.

I'd also really like if they expanded it, to include the other Factory singles and to maybe include the original Temptation and Confusion.
But there's an argument that keeping it as it was in 1987 would be more 'authentic'.

2021 seems a long way away.
I really hope that the box sets are at least two a year, but even at that rate, we won't get them all until 2023 at the earliest.

None of us are getting any younger, sadly...
50poundnote  
#5 Posted : 23 July 2019 21:51:22(UTC)
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I'd like to see something along these lines for a Substance Definitive Edition:

Remastered double LP
Remastered CD mirroring the LP: Subculture and Shellshock in edited form, but The Perfect Kiss uncut. At the time, they were limited to 74 minutes per disc, but you can fit up to 80.

CD2 (76:35):
Ceremony (1st version)
In A Lonely Place
Procession
Mesh
Cries & Whispers
Temptation (1982)
Hurt
The Beach
Confusion (1983)
Confused Beats
Confusion (Instrumental)
Confusion (Rough Mix)

CD3 (71:51):
Lonesome Tonight
Murder
Thieves Live Us (Instrumental)
The Kiss Of Death
Perfect Pit
Subculture (unedited 1985 remix)
Dub-Vulture
Shellshock (unedited 1986 remix)
Shellcock
Thieves Like Us (Instrumental '86)
Shame of The Nation

CD4 (42:57):
Bizarre Dub Triangle
1963
Evil Dust
Paradise (Robert Racic Remix)
True Faith (Shep Pettibone Remix)
True Dub

That stays true to what Substance was, while giving us all the remastered audio from the re-released 12" singles.

Fold Touched By The Hand Of God, Blue Monday '88, and World In Motion into the Technique box. I could see that one being 5-6 CDs plus a couple of DVDs, but it deserves it.
Johnny James  
#6 Posted : 23 July 2019 23:53:11(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post


Fold Touched By The Hand Of God, Blue Monday '88, and World In Motion into the Technique box. I could see that one being 5-6 CDs plus a couple of DVDs, but it deserves it.


2 DVDs of Technique era footage! We might struggle to find that.

Mr Discography  
#7 Posted : 24 July 2019 15:45:06(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
I'd like to see something along these lines for a Substance Definitive Edition:

Remastered double LP
Remastered CD mirroring the LP: Subculture and Shellshock in edited form, but The Perfect Kiss uncut. At the time, they were limited to 74 minutes per disc, but you can fit up to 80.

I agree with your CD1 tracklist, with one addition: 'Murder'. It needs to stay authentic to the 1987 version[s] (my all time favourite album), otherwise I'd still end up listening to the 1987 "unremastered" version!

I'd actually mirror the tracklist of the 1987 2 x cassette version over 3 x CDs,. This included 'Murder' on tape one between 'Thieves Like Us' and 'Perfect Kiss' (it was an A-side after all), and I'd amend 'Perfect Kiss to be the full length (justifiable as it appeared unedited on the 1987 vinyl LP). With 'Murder', the full length 'Perfect Kiss' and no other changes to track versions, this would fit on CD1 (it'd be 78m 52s total).

It'd then become a 3 x CD re-release, as the original tape two clocked in at 1h 34. Also keep the edited 'Hurt', as that's exclusive to 'Substance' (and doesn't drag like the original 12" version).

Sub-culture and Shellshock are too long in their full 12" forms, so would need to remain the 1987 Substance edits. Also keep the re-recordings of Temptation and Confusion for the same "authenticity" reasons (plus these are the first versions of the songs I ever heard, and my favourite recordings of each).

That'd be my ideal, "authentic" ultimate version of 'Substance' - after all, if you muck about with the playlist too much, it ceases to be 'Substance' and becomes a different compilation altogether!

I'd have no objections, of course, to a 4th CD featuring other bonus material or rare tracks/mixes, but this wouldn't be part of the main "album suite", just a bonus disc.

I'd love to see one of the 'Substance' tour live performances where they played all tracks in order with 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' as an encore on a bonus DVD too - were any of these ever filmed? Think one was at Wembley Arena.

Edited by user 24 July 2019 22:05:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Fotzepolitic  
#8 Posted : 25 July 2019 10:43:51(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Go to Quoted Post
I'd like to see something along these lines for a Substance Definitive Edition:

Remastered double LP
Remastered CD mirroring the LP: Subculture and Shellshock in edited form, but The Perfect Kiss uncut. At the time, they were limited to 74 minutes per disc, but you can fit up to 80.

I agree with your CD1 tracklist, with one addition: 'Murder'. It needs to stay authentic to the 1987 version[s] (my all time favourite album), otherwise I'd still end up listening to the 1987 "unremastered" version!

I'd actually mirror the tracklist of the 1987 2 x cassette version over 3 x CDs,. This included 'Murder' on tape one between 'Thieves Like Us' and 'Perfect Kiss' (it was an A-side after all), and I'd amend 'Perfect Kiss to be the full length (justifiable as it appeared unedited on the 1987 vinyl LP). With 'Murder', the full length 'Perfect Kiss' and no other changes to track versions, this would fit on CD1 (it'd be 78m 52s total).

It'd then become a 3 x CD re-release, as the original tape two clocked in at 1h 34. Also keep the edited 'Hurt', as that's exclusive to 'Substance' (and doesn't drag like the original 12" version).

Sub-culture and Shellshock are too long in their full 12" forms, so would need to remain the 1987 Substance edits. Also keep the re-recordings of Temptation and Confusion for the same "authenticity" reasons (plus these are the first versions of the songs I ever heard, and my favourite recordings of each).

That'd be my ideal, "authentic" ultimate version of 'Substance' - after all, if you muck about with the playlist too much, it ceases to be 'Substance' and becomes a different compilation altogether!

I'd have no objections, of course, to a 4th CD featuring other bonus material or rare tracks/mixes, but this wouldn't be part of the main "album suite", just a bonus disc.

I'd love to see one of the 'Substance' tour live performances where they played all tracks in order with 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' as an encore on a bonus DVD too - were any of these ever filmed? Think one was at Wembley Arena.


I was at the Wembley Arena Deccember 87 gig but no, they didn't play Substance in full, in order at that one.Think the only time, or times, they did that was in New York in September 87.

I can't see a Definitive Edition Substance box set.As NotAmod i think opined, i can only see a straightforward re-mastered vinyl and cd release.

50 Pound Note  
#9 Posted : 25 July 2019 11:15:22(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Think the only time, or times, they did that was in New York in September 87.


Toronto, September 3, 1987
Irvine (Los Angeles), September 12, 1987

I'm listening to the latter right now. :)

Tony Wilson introduces them, and they encore with Atmosphere, Love Will Tear Us Apart, and Sister Ray.

Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
I can't see a Definitive Edition Substance box set. As NotAmod i think opined, i can only see a straightforward re-mastered vinyl and cd release.


Why not? It's arguably the most important album in their entire discography, and as the newly remastered and re-released 12" singles are NOT included in the Movement Definitive Edition, they have to find a physical release somewhere. It stands to reason they were held back from the box because Substance will be getting a box of its own.
Fotzepolitic  
#10 Posted : 26 July 2019 01:14:49(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50 Pound Note Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Think the only time, or times, they did that was in New York in September 87.


Toronto, September 3, 1987
Irvine (Los Angeles), September 12, 1987

I'm listening to the latter right now. :)

Tony Wilson introduces them, and they encore with Atmosphere, Love Will Tear Us Apart, and Sister Ray.

Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
I can't see a Definitive Edition Substance box set. As NotAmod i think opined, i can only see a straightforward re-mastered vinyl and cd release.


Why not? It's arguably the most important album in their entire discography, and as the newly remastered and re-released 12" singles are NOT included in the Movement Definitive Edition, they have to find a physical release somewhere. It stands to reason they were held back from the box because Substance will be getting a box of its own.


I guess i assumed the definitive box series were just to be the studio albums, not the greatest hits type releases. I mean, are we then to expect a definitive edition box set of things like International?
Andy  
#11 Posted : 26 July 2019 04:57:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 50 Pound Note Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Think the only time, or times, they did that was in New York in September 87.


Toronto, September 3, 1987
Irvine (Los Angeles), September 12, 1987

I'm listening to the latter right now. :)

Tony Wilson introduces them, and they encore with Atmosphere, Love Will Tear Us Apart, and Sister Ray.

Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
I can't see a Definitive Edition Substance box set. As NotAmod i think opined, i can only see a straightforward re-mastered vinyl and cd release.


Why not? It's arguably the most important album in their entire discography, and as the newly remastered and re-released 12" singles are NOT included in the Movement Definitive Edition, they have to find a physical release somewhere. It stands to reason they were held back from the box because Substance will be getting a box of its own.


According to this, Age of Consent was played instead of True Faith in Toronto.
50poundnote  
#12 Posted : 26 July 2019 05:38:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
I guess i assumed the definitive box series were just to be the studio albums, not the greatest hits type releases. I mean, are we then to expect a definitive edition box set of things like International?


Oh, come on. Substance is NOT a greatest hits - it's a collection of 12" singles that were (mostly) non-album tracks with (often) unique B-sides. Tony Wilson wanted to listen to New Order's 12" singles in his car, Substance was born, and it expanded their fanbase exponentially. It's an important release. In 1987, the only tracks digitally available were Blue Monday and The Beach (U.S. CD of PC&L), State Of The Nation (U.K. CD of Brotherhood), and True Faith (on a very limited CDV single).

Of course things like The Best Of, International, blah blah hits repackaging won't get definitive boxes. They don't add anything new to the story.

I'll be surprised if the Definitive Editions go beyond Technique, but I'd actually like one for Republic. Get Ready, Waiting For The Sirens' Call and Lost Sirens don't deserve box sets (unless Get Ready includes pro-shot and soundboard footage of the full first reunion gig at the Manchester Apollo in '98), and with the availability of various formats, remixes, and quality of video, Music Complete doesn't need one.
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50poundnote  
#13 Posted : 26 July 2019 05:39:19(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
According to this, Age of Consent was played instead of True Faith in Toronto.


I stand corrected.
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