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Music Complete  
#26 Posted : 25 August 2017 16:08:10(UTC)
Music Complete

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Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Think New Order played in full the whole of Substance in track order (not the b sides though!) at one of the USA gigs in August or September 1987 if i recall.


Irvine Meadows (L.A.), September 12, 1987. Introduction by Tony Wilson, Substance played in order during the main set, encored with Atmosphere, Love Will Tear Us Apart, and Sister Ray. Even though it's an audience recording, it's terrific.
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ROCKET MICK on 26/08/2017(UTC), Fotzepolitic on 30/08/2017(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#27 Posted : 25 August 2017 21:38:36(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Music Complete Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Think New Order played in full the whole of Substance in track order (not the b sides though!) at one of the USA gigs in August or September 1987 if i recall.


Irvine Meadows (L.A.), September 12, 1987. Introduction by Tony Wilson, Substance played in order during the main set, encored with Atmosphere, Love Will Tear Us Apart, and Sister Ray. Even though it's an audience recording, it's terrific.


Something for the obsessives. https://docs.google.com/...cEBwayJ9knZ-NoAul5O8/pub
I suffer from premature ejaculation and diarrhea. Easy come, easy go.
I can't realistically see a Substance remaster... Interesting fact: In 1994 Hooky told Radio One they were going to release Substance 2 featuring their rerecording of LWTUA and maybe some remixes on the CD. All bollocks of course as they wouldn't even be seen in the same hemisphere together, let alone in a studio massacring an oldie.
Speaking of dodgy reissues, PIL's Greatest Hits So Far: the inferior ThisIsNotALoveSong LP version displaces the awesome single, Bad Life isn't included and Careering (not even a single) is. I think the majors do this kind of thing on purpose to give forum users things to point out to each other.

Edited by user 25 August 2017 21:42:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 26/08/2017(UTC)
Debaser  
#28 Posted : 30 August 2017 12:28:15(UTC)
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The Guardian has done an article: readers favourite albums turning 30, supposedly prompted by Jacko's Bad.

Substance doesn't make the list, but in the "below the line" comments, "One glaring omission would be Substance by New Order" is currently the most popular comment (if you sort them by recommendations). Although that is subject to change. So there are currently 8 pages of comments - and counting - in addition to the main article. I enjoyed remembering some of the other good stuff from '87 (Prince: Sign o' The Times, The Smiths: Strangeways, REM, Pixies...), especially as this here forum is so quiet at the moment.

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Fotzepolitic on 30/08/2017(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#29 Posted : 30 August 2017 13:21:14(UTC)
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Off the top of my head the albums i remember buying in 1987 apart from Substance were Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me by The Cure, Actually by Pet Shop Boys and Darklands by Jesus & Mary Chain.Probs a few more i've long forgotten.Oh and Strangeways Here We Come by The Smiths i associate vividly with 1987.I didn't actually buy it but heard all the songs on John Peel and recorded a lot of them off his end of year festive 50 shows.I was torn because i loved a lot of the songs on Strangeways but around that era there was a bit of rivalry i awlays thought between New Order and The Smiths, aggravated by Morrissey seemingly dissing JD and NO a few times in years previously.Peel's end of year festive 50 was regularly my chance to catch up and record off the radio all the songs i hadn't heard or even heard of over the previous 12 months, what with the interweb/YouTube/peer to peer sharing not around back then,obvs.


Listened to some of The Cure's Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss me (triple) album a while back for the first time since god knows when and it sounded pretty dated apart from the still magnificent Just Like Heaven.





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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#30 Posted : 30 August 2017 23:27:20(UTC)
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All I remember about 1987 is telling a kid who used to bully me my mother was seriously ill. He believed me and left me alone. For a week. Then he started bullying me again. Why is life so unfair?
There was another kid who bullied me and he was a Prince fan so I bought Sign of the Times. I didn't even like it but I was desperste to be accepted. Didn't work. Still, the way Prince says 'Really' in Housequake made me laugh.
Good times.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#31 Posted : 31 August 2017 00:30:22(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
there was a bit of rivalry i awlays thought between New Order and The Smiths, aggravated by Morrissey seemingly dissing JD and NO



By a happy coincidence 'World in Motion' was the same time as the 10th anniversary of Ian's death and NME ran articles on both. They quoted Morrissey saying he'd seen JD before the death (not after, that'd be difficult) and was 'enormously unmoved - as were most of the audience.' He continued that he didn't get the fascination around NO or 'feel anything strong for them... To me, it's all myth.' Obviously this wasn't what I wanted to hear but it did strike me as an articulate and reasonable comment, unlike Hooky's name-calling... In '91 Marred Johnny said Hooky actually asked to collaborate but Bernard got there first and that's when Peter started dissing the Smiths and Johnny in particular. Mind you, he hates everyone except a dead singer and his son.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
Low Life  
#32 Posted : 04 September 2017 06:36:17(UTC)
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I can't believe anyone would seriously prefer the Substance versions of Temptation and Confusion over the originals... absolute sacrilege.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
NotAMod  
#33 Posted : 04 September 2017 07:20:25(UTC)
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Well, I prefer the 87 version to both of the 82 versions. I think it does depend on which you heard first.

I wish they had released a full 7 minute version of the 98 reworking because it was pretty good too.

I think as the band themselves have admitted, Temptation never worked all that well in the studio. Much better live.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
The Shadow  
#34 Posted : 04 September 2017 08:16:28(UTC)
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Darklands by the Jesus and Mary Chain is an absolute masterpiece (imo) from 87. One of my all time favourites

Also love Spacemen 3 perfect prescription from 87.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
is it bro  
#35 Posted : 04 September 2017 13:02:51(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Low Life Go to Quoted Post
I can't believe anyone would seriously prefer the Substance versions of Temptation and Confusion over the originals... absolute sacrilege.


Well I heard the substnsce versions first and when I heard the original ceremony and temptation I thought they were demos. Very rough, with out of tuned guitars, poor mixing and drums and plodding.

The 87 temptation is near perfection except the plinky plonky sequencer sounds sonically too similar to Bernard's guitar picking part and not distinguished enough.

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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#36 Posted : 04 September 2017 21:55:57(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ken Doherty Go to Quoted Post
according to Mr. Hooks Facebook


So it must be true.
When I started to waste three years of my youth at uni, I couldn't lug all my vinyl up there so I compiled the 'proper' version of each song (no remixes unless they had the full vocal and radically different music e.g. Get The Massage Groove but not the 7"). Funnily enuff I chose the 'Temptation' on the fairly crappy BBC Radio 1 Live in Concert - it seemed the closest I could get to a definitive rendering. I think the original 7" or 12" would've sounded tacky by 1987's standards.
It always annoyed me that Hooky gets lost from the last verse of Perfect Kiss and I actually thought https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_K2eCbJblA was the best representation.
No one in England, the world, the universe gives a fucking flying fucking fuck.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#37 Posted : 05 September 2017 11:06:23(UTC)
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First version of Temptation i heard was the fantastic live version on the Dec 83 Radio 1 broadcast of the April 83 Kilkenny gig . The 1982 7" & 12" both have their high points and low points but difficult to imagine them on Substance. The trouble with the 87 version recorded for Substance is they tried to recreate the live version and didn't really capture the vibe and/or energy. The same can be said for the 87 recording of Confusion for Substance- tried to recreate the live version but doesn't have the sheer energy of , say, the live version they did of it at the Kilkenny 83 gig.


As for the version of Ceremony that is on Substance, I always found it quite lifeless, lame an restrained and never understood why it's everyone's favourite version . Alright, the first version had recording and mixing problems but at least it has fucking life and energy to it. But hey this is all just my view and opinion and we all know what opinions and arseholes have in common.

Edited by user 05 September 2017 11:08:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#38 Posted : 05 September 2017 11:32:13(UTC)
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Thinking, if was t make a playlist or mixtape of Substance live I'd go for these live versions:

Ceremony -Kilkenny, 24.04.83

Everything's Gone Green - Kilkenny 24.04.83

Temptation - Kilkenny 24.04.83

Blue Monday - Finsbury Park 09.06.2002

Confusion - Kilkenny 24.04.83

Thieves Like Us - Hacienda 20.07.83

Perfect Kiss- Bennicasim ??. 07.2012

Sub Culture - Granada Studios, 29.06.2017

Shellshock- Granada Studios, 29.06.2017

State Of The Nation- gawd, is there any good live versions if this? Dunno, one of the Oct 86 gigs then.


Bizarre Love Triangle- Glastonbury 2016

True Faith- Reading Festival ??.08.98
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
is it bro  
#39 Posted : 05 September 2017 12:46:22(UTC)
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Hooky doesn't get lost in the second verse.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
is it bro  
#40 Posted : 05 September 2017 12:46:25(UTC)
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Hooky doesn't get lost in the second verse.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
is it bro  
#41 Posted : 05 September 2017 12:46:33(UTC)
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Hooky doesn't get lost in the second verse.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
is it bro  
#42 Posted : 05 September 2017 12:46:38(UTC)
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Hooky doesn't get lost in the second verse.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
is it bro  
#43 Posted : 05 September 2017 12:46:55(UTC)
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Hooky doesn't get lost in the second verse.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#44 Posted : 06 September 2017 05:36:47(UTC)
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I never repeat myself. Never, never never.
If I remember well, on the 12" the final verse (the bit about being alone at night) has Bernard's not-quite-Hendrixy guitar dubbed in instead of the Hook bits he did live. I would check but it is important beer and Melanie C time.
The BBC Radio 1 album was poorly received but it was cool to have some of their best tracks all on one release instead of jumping from one format to another. I was such an obsessive little wanker I was just happy to have some 'new' official vinyl for my collection. Unfortunately the disadvantages outweighed the positives: sub-Hague production, editing and the loss of live excitement. I always thought it was shitty the way they edited Reading 98 for the DVD, presumably toinclude Tarwass ShankFuckPig. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/09/2017(UTC)
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