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Michael Monkhouse  
#226 Posted : 05 November 2017 23:33:24(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
So many remixers I've never heard of, which is unusual for me.


Yeah! Reading these reviews I was struck by what a dip in interest I had from one album to the next. I could recite the entire discography up to Rest Of and saddest of all I did sometimes.
The Spice Girls had great songs but didn't write them all alone. If you look at the credits to each Spice track - you need a fucking hobby.
BCD... Hmm. Bernard's strong point is the personal (TLU, Temptation, R and R etc) - turn his attention to, like, problems and, y'know, society and stuff and I dunno, maybe we should all be nise to eech udder, right? Some awful lyrics in this period - BCD, Slow Jam, PITL - but far better music than most of Republic. That's probably more to do with Arthur Baker, but at least it was good to get an original B-side. Do we really need BLT vid, BLT 7". BDT 7", BLT 12", BDT 12"?
This has urged me to relisten to GR and boy, is it hit 'n' miss - from the awesome (PN) through the mediocre (60 mph) to the truly shite (RTS, which even superegotistical Hooky doesn't like). One thing at a time though.

Edited by user 05 November 2017 23:37:19(UTC)  | Reason: Specified

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ROCKET MICK on 06/11/2017(UTC)
perspexorange  
#227 Posted : 06 November 2017 01:23:15(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Have dug out the mixes of Crystal i have.I have the standard UK CD1 and CD2.Can't remember the last time i listened to these, maybe about 2002.. The Digweed and Muir Bedrock mix "edit" on CD1 is 10 minutes long but i turned it off before 5 minutes.Not into it but it did remind that i was once in a club in Tel Aviv when i was on holiday there in 2007 and John Digweed was djing.I went up to the booth and shouted up to him "John!" assuming he would hear my English accent and acknowledge me but he just gave me a whatever look and a barely detectable shrug.Cunt. But i did probably look like a mentalist to be fair.I got a similar response from Dave Clarke when i tried to ask him to put Kraftwerk's 'Numbers' on in a club in Liverpool (not Cream though, i seem to recall.Actually it might even have been Back To Basics in Leeds come to think of it) sometime in the late 90s.I think i concluded after the Digweed incident that trying to say hello or request tracks from DJs was a fruitless pursuit and i should retire to the dancefloor or bar.Lesson learnt.


On to The Creamer And Steph K remix on CD2 now (skipped the unbeatably brilliant Coombs mix as i know what that one goes like and am familiar with it).Yeah i prefer this mix from the Digweed and Muir one, some nice sounds on this one.


I have the 12" of Here To Stay and on which is the album version of Crystal but i seem to recall it's even longer than the album mix? Maybe too unnecessarily long however.


So in summary- the Coombs mix still tops the lot of 'em.


That mix of Crystal on the Here to Stay 12" is the original full version. More Hooky and better for it.


Really?
I always assumed that it was the album version.
Can anyone direct me to somewhere I can hear this? Ta.
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ROCKET MICK on 06/11/2017(UTC)
Jcp7  
#228 Posted : 06 November 2017 05:37:59(UTC)
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hts 12" promo

I didn't remember that.
The only alternate Crystal mix i know, is on the premix album.
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Fotzepolitic  
#229 Posted : 06 November 2017 06:43:06(UTC)
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I think the version of Crystal on the Here To Stay 12" is exactly the same length as the album version but there are a few differences i.e as Andy said ,more Hooky.But i'm sure negative1 will scold me now for not checking his definitive list for confirmation.

Edited by user 06 November 2017 06:45:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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perspexorange  
#230 Posted : 06 November 2017 06:49:01(UTC)
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That link doesn’t work for me; just gives a link to the discography main page.

Here’s an extract:

12": UK 2002 (London Records NUOX11)
12": UK 2002 (777 Productions) [double sided acetate]
5:00 Here to Stay (full length vocal)
6:49 Crystal *
8:00 Here to Stay (felix da housecat - the extended glitz mix)
8:01 Here to Stay (the scumfrog dub mix) +

* Actually an extended version running over 7 minutes. Possibly same as on the Get Ready CDR.

Also, looking at Discogs, someone has added the following comment - “Slightly longer version than the album cut of "Crystal" on this 12" with an extended instrumental break, unfortunately the pressing of this 12" is really bad, cut much too loud and therefore distorted.”

https://www.discogs.com/...re-To-Stay/release/47332

So, it looks like there may be an extended version of the album mix on the standard 12”, not just the promo.
Hopefully somebody has it and can let me have a listen. Distortion and all... 😀
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ROCKET MICK on 06/11/2017(UTC)
Andy  
#231 Posted : 06 November 2017 06:54:53(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Have dug out the mixes of Crystal i have.I have the standard UK CD1 and CD2.Can't remember the last time i listened to these, maybe about 2002.. The Digweed and Muir Bedrock mix "edit" on CD1 is 10 minutes long but i turned it off before 5 minutes.Not into it but it did remind that i was once in a club in Tel Aviv when i was on holiday there in 2007 and John Digweed was djing.I went up to the booth and shouted up to him "John!" assuming he would hear my English accent and acknowledge me but he just gave me a whatever look and a barely detectable shrug.Cunt. But i did probably look like a mentalist to be fair.I got a similar response from Dave Clarke when i tried to ask him to put Kraftwerk's 'Numbers' on in a club in Liverpool (not Cream though, i seem to recall.Actually it might even have been Back To Basics in Leeds come to think of it) sometime in the late 90s.I think i concluded after the Digweed incident that trying to say hello or request tracks from DJs was a fruitless pursuit and i should retire to the dancefloor or bar.Lesson learnt.


On to The Creamer And Steph K remix on CD2 now (skipped the unbeatably brilliant Coombs mix as i know what that one goes like and am familiar with it).Yeah i prefer this mix from the Digweed and Muir one, some nice sounds on this one.


I have the 12" of Here To Stay and on which is the album version of Crystal but i seem to recall it's even longer than the album mix? Maybe too unnecessarily long however.


So in summary- the Coombs mix still tops the lot of 'em.


That mix of Crystal on the Here to Stay 12" is the original full version. More Hooky and better for it.


Really?
I always assumed that it was the album version.
Can anyone direct me to somewhere I can hear this? Ta.


Got rid of all my vinyl but had transferred all exclusive tracks to CD-R. Description is "Original Mix" which is how it was listed on the 12" label. Running time (at least on my disc) is 7:08.

I'm not going to go through inch by inch and compare this with the LP mix but the easiest comparison is with the Substance vs. original 12" of The Perfect Kiss: More stuff at the end. Crystal was never a favourite so my ears aren't really going to be tuned to notice minor mix variations throughout the track. I'm sure someone will find something exciting about it...
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ROCKET MICK on 06/11/2017(UTC), perspexorange on 06/11/2017(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#232 Posted : 06 November 2017 07:18:56(UTC)
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I have just given a spin the version of Crystal on the Here To Stay 12" and it does clock in at around 7.08 as Andy says.

I was timing it on the stopwatch on my phone though so not entirely accurate but i'd say about 7.08 yeah.Though the tracklistings on the sleeve of the Here To Stay 12" states Crystal 6.49 but i'd say that's an error.The album version is 6.51 according to my CD copy of Get Ready when i put it in iTunes.

The difference i can possibly tell is there's , as i said, more Hooky in the last 3rd of the track on the Here To Stay vinyl.

I do have a vinyl to digital gadget but i haven't used it for a few years and would have to work out again how to use it if i was to transfer the vinyl to digital of the version of Crystal on HTS 12" then upload it somewhere.I don't think it's a great pressing to be honest and the vinyl to digital kit i have was from the cheaper end of that market.I'm sure there's a digital version of it already on the internet somewhere already, there has to be.

Edited by user 06 November 2017 07:19:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Ben  
#233 Posted : 06 November 2017 08:18:03(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
I have just given a spin the version of Crystal on the Here To Stay 12" and it does clock in at around 7.08 as Andy says.


The premix version of Crystal, with more Hooky in the bridge, clocks at 7:23. Seems to be yet another version.

More about this premix at:
http://www.allformusic.f...et-ready-premix-mastered
http://thepowerofindepen...-get-ready-mastered.html

Edited by user 06 November 2017 08:35:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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perspexorange  
#234 Posted : 06 November 2017 08:25:13(UTC)
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Thanks both for checking this out.

Looking at the images on the Discogs page (labels, back sleeve), there doesn’t appear to be any note that this is a different version. Sounds like it was possibly mispressed, with the wrong track being picked up from the master tape. Much like the ‘original version’ of Temptation on the TBTHOG CD.

Have had a bit of a hunt online, but no luck, sadly.
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ROCKET MICK on 06/11/2017(UTC)
perspexorange  
#235 Posted : 06 November 2017 13:32:23(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ben Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
I have just given a spin the version of Crystal on the Here To Stay 12" and it does clock in at around 7.08 as Andy says.


The premix version of Crystal, with more Hooky in the bridge, clocks at 7:23. Seems to be yet another version.

More about this premix at:
http://www.allformusic.f...et-ready-premix-mastered
http://thepowerofindepen...-get-ready-mastered.html


I really like the Pre-Mix + Companion.

There are some really interesting variations. SLY is excellent.
That Brutal Instrumental Demo on the Companion is great, plus that very different demo of 60MPH is really good.

There’s probably a few too many mixes of Brutal on there though.
7! Crikey! Eek

Edited by user 06 November 2017 13:32:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 06/11/2017(UTC)
negative1  
#236 Posted : 06 November 2017 15:23:59(UTC)
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As far as crystal goes, here is a comparison of the 12 inch mix on the top, and the album version.

Both are very similar until about the 5 minute mark, and the they diverge from there.

So, yeah there are some differences. As far as sound quality goes, the 12 inch mix isn't too bad, but obviously not as clear as the album version, the dynamics are different too.

UserPostedImage

later
-1

Edited by user 06 November 2017 15:29:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Ben  
#237 Posted : 07 November 2017 03:01:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ben Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
I have just given a spin the version of Crystal on the Here To Stay 12" and it does clock in at around 7.08 as Andy says.


The premix version of Crystal, with more Hooky in the bridge, clocks at 7:23. Seems to be yet another version.

More about this premix at:
http://www.allformusic.f...et-ready-premix-mastered
http://thepowerofindepen...-get-ready-mastered.html


I really like the Pre-Mix + Companion.

There are some really interesting variations. SLY is excellent.
That Brutal Instrumental Demo on the Companion is great, plus that very different demo of 60MPH is really good.

There’s probably a few too many mixes of Brutal on there though.
7! Crikey! Eek


Never heard about the companion. Will have to find it...

The pre-mix is indeed very interesting. I replaced Crystal by the Hooky-enriched premix version in my Get Ready iTunes playlist, as well as SLY which is slightly different (with one different chorus if I remember well) and, indeed, better to my ears . If my memory is right, Close Range premix is very different from the final version (which I prefer).
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2017(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#238 Posted : 07 November 2017 05:36:16(UTC)
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There was that Dalek shenanigans and the 'Crystal' line in the Electronic B-side 'Radiation'. What a hotbed of ideas they are... How LEGIT is this: https://www.ebay.com/itm...der-Smiths-/253210667585 ? Slightly off-topic but the Lec's 'Second to None' and 'All that I Need' are better than a lot of LP tracks.
No one listens to the Corrs. You just watch them. (People ask why I'm always criticising Trump and jerking off to the Spice Girls. Well I tried it the other way round and it wasn't the same... DISGUSTING! A grown man criticising the Spice Girls).
There was a good premix of Someone Like You too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5so_8xLDkQY
And Close Range https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtreehmbi2U
I never liked Close Range cos of the namby pamby lyrics but the DVD live version is better - backing vocals and a longer introduction.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2017(UTC)
perspexorange  
#239 Posted : 07 November 2017 13:17:56(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
There was that Dalek shenanigans and the 'Crystal' line in the Electronic B-side 'Radiation'. What a hotbed of ideas they are... How LEGIT is this: https://www.ebay.com/itm...der-Smiths-/253210667585 ? Slightly off-topic but the Lec's 'Second to None' and 'All that I Need' are better than a lot of LP tracks.
No one listens to the Corrs. You just watch them. (People ask why I'm always criticising Trump and jerking off to the Spice Girls. Well I tried it the other way round and it wasn't the same... DISGUSTING! A grown man criticising the Spice Girls).
There was a good premix of Someone Like You too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5so_8xLDkQY
And Close Range https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtreehmbi2U
I never liked Close Range cos of the namby pamby lyrics but the DVD live version is better - backing vocals and a longer introduction.


I do really like 'Second To None'. 'All That I Need' was pretty good too.

Both those premix versions are excellent. I especially like the 'Someone Like You' mix. That track is bloody great anyway.

As regards the DJ mixes of 'Crystal', I have a couple of the Cybersecrecy mixes (Indestructible & Shatterproof Mixes), a couple of the Corvin Dalek mixes (Siliconsex & Donner & Summer Remixes) and the Original Demo on the Mark Reeder 'Collaborator' LP. I think there were some Flatner & Ingram mixes too but I've never heard them.

Music-wise, the mixes aren't really my cup of tea. However, it's really nice to hear the additional lyrics that are included in some of them:

'The close that I get to you,
The more you run away from me.
Just tell what I've got to do,
You don't have to be afraid of me.
I want your love,
I need your love.
I want the things that others have.
Whenever you're here with me,
That's where I want to be.'

For anyone that didn't know, prior to New Order recording Crystal, Sumner's vocals were given to various DJs, via Mark Reeder, with the idea that they would make tracks using the vocals supplied. Pete Tong heard heard one of the mixes created and said that it was the best New Order track he'd heard since Blue Monday, so NO decided to record a version themselves.
They presumably added the chorus (I don't know what to say etc.), as that doesn't seem to appear in any of the mixes.
The mixes created by the DJs were shelved until after the band's version had been released (which makes sense). I think that some of them have never seen the light of day.

Here's the Cybersecrecy Shatterproof Mix with the extra lyrics if anyone is interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLkmtU6t1OU

I think some of them might have been sung by Dawn Zee in NO's version, but it's nice to hear Sumner sing them.

Seen as if some of the remixes used these lyrics and some didn't, it makes you wonder if there were any other lyrics not used.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2017(UTC), Michael Monkhouse on 08/11/2017(UTC)
Dennis Remmer  
#240 Posted : 15 November 2017 00:53:05(UTC)
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Behind Closed Doors + 60 Miles An Hour reviews now posted.

Thanks everyone for your ongoing feedback, opinions, and occasional diatribe... much appreciated. DR

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Michael Monkhouse  
#241 Posted : 15 November 2017 05:00:31(UTC)
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60 mph is my least favourite on the first half of GR - really MOR and more Wings than Beatles. The remix is pointless filler à la London too.
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ROCKET MICK on 15/11/2017(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#242 Posted : 15 November 2017 09:35:54(UTC)
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Behind Closed Doors is an odd one. An unusual vocal style from Bernard and it doesn’t sound anything like the stuff in Get Ready. Quite like it in places but not something I listen to often.

Always found Bernard’s vocal for 60MPH one of the most energetic and enthusiastic ones he’s ever done and I like the lyrics especially the bit about inviting the devil round for tea. Great Hooky bass and instrumental break is superb.It was the first track title i learnt of in the months up to the release of Get Ready. I like the video, goofy and fun.
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ROCKET MICK on 16/11/2017(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#243 Posted : 15 November 2017 10:58:37(UTC)
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In fact that remix sounded like Rupert's Frog Chorus. The SLU take was decent but as always, mixes without the vocal were more DJ self-indulgence than NO.
PS Ever wondered what Stephen Morris was doing in that long break? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1mQ_B3Q65c

Edited by user 15 November 2017 11:15:41(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 16/11/2017(UTC)
Ben  
#244 Posted : 16 November 2017 05:59:48(UTC)
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Behind Closed Doors is definitely one of my favourite songs of the Get Ready sessions (except the "listen to the Corrs" bit), and a great B-side to a fabulous single.

60mph on the contrary is one of the Get Ready songs I like the least, although it’s not as bad as Slow Jam or Rock the Shack or Player in the League. The music may be good, but the to my ears cheesy lyrics always prevented me from paying much attention to it. Seriously, “we’re driving 60mph!”, sung by Barney as if it were some kind of performance… It’s just a very average speed, isn’t it? Big Grin

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ROCKET MICK on 16/11/2017(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#245 Posted : 18 November 2017 00:14:45(UTC)
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Revisiting Let's Go, I was intrigued how it was included on the US Best Of, like Hellbent on Scrotal. I'd guess that in both cases the song was used not because it was indeed worthy, but simply cos it was the closest London could get to a newbie at the time. It's similar to Greatest Hits packages containing an unreleased track which by definition can't be a hit (at least not yet).
Let's Go (Waiting For So Long) is a gem.
'Republic has great lyrics, shit music; Get Ready, the opposite.' Disgust.
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ROCKET MICK on 18/11/2017(UTC)
Blue 5  
#246 Posted : 19 November 2017 10:15:57(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
There was that Dalek shenanigans and the 'Crystal' line in the Electronic B-side 'Radiation'. What a hotbed of ideas they are... How LEGIT is this: https://www.ebay.com/itm...der-Smiths-/253210667585 ? Slightly off-topic but the Lec's 'Second to None' and 'All that I Need' are better than a lot of LP tracks.
No one listens to the Corrs. You just watch them. (People ask why I'm always criticising Trump and jerking off to the Spice Girls. Well I tried it the other way round and it wasn't the same... DISGUSTING! A grown man criticising the Spice Girls).
There was a good premix of Someone Like You too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5so_8xLDkQY
And Close Range https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtreehmbi2U
I never liked Close Range cos of the namby pamby lyrics but the DVD live version is better - backing vocals and a longer introduction.


I think Close Range is probably one of their best songs. All the versions are good (Dream On/ Live/ In Session), but the Get Ready one is actually my favorite.

The Hooky bass outro is pure class.

The real surprise for me listening to GR recently was Turn My Way. I don't like anything about it, from the Billy Corgan collaboration to the watery nu-metal guitar production. And the lyrics. Jesus :-) I used to skip it every time back in the day.

But reading all the blog entries from Dennis (thanks Dennis) made me have another listen and I found the non-Corgan demo online, inexplicably called Shipwreck of a Broken Man (more like a traditional New Order nothing to do with the song title and all the better for it).

I think it is brilliant. Stripped back to the bare Joy Division essentials and one of Barney's better vocals. I feel cheated not having tried this version before and missing out on this for the last 16 years! It's like finding a brand new track to me.

Why they felt the need to include Billy Corgan I don't know other than for commercial reasons. Which is not something I would never have accused New Order of previously.

After this success, I repeated the exercise by finding the non-Ana Matronic Jetstream. Unfortunately, that is still literally a plane crash :-)
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ROCKET MICK on 19/11/2017(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#247 Posted : 19 November 2017 10:35:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Blue 5 Go to Quoted Post
Jetstream. Unfortunately, that is still literally a plane crash :-)


Literally?
Close Range is like my dick during Spice Girls videos. It grows on me.
My dad has a penis growing out of his head, but he keeps it under his hat.
Get Ready is sooooo hit and miss... But has enough HITS to earn relistens, unlike Repubelick. Crystral, PN, TMW...

Edited by user 19 November 2017 10:38:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 19/11/2017(UTC)
perspexorange  
#248 Posted : 19 November 2017 11:10:42(UTC)
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I’ve always wondered if the Corgan collaboration came about when the band realised that Gillian would be unlikely to go on tour (presumably during the recording of the LP; apparently she was absent during much of the recording sessions).

When they approached him to cover for Gillian for a few gigs, maybe a collaboration was discussed. This might explain why there is a fairly complete version without Corgan present (Shipwreck Of A Broken Man); his contribution was, presumably, added very late on.

As to why they used Corgan - they probably selected him due to them knowing him well from the early days (he was a big NO fan before he started the Smashing Pumpkins and used to follow them around on tour). The fact that the Pumpkins has split up at the time, that he was a friend and, lastly, that he was a fan and probably knew how to play most songs, meant he was a natural choice to gig with the band. I think that was probably the impetus for touring with him, rather than specifically commercial reasons. I guess a collaboration seemed reasonable, considering they were spending time with him and would also have given him a little more to do on stage.

It’s funny, I saw him perform with the band at the Olympia in 2001. I remember him singing Turn My Way and playing guitar, but I have no recollection as to whether he sang backing vocals for any other tracks. I also can’t recall who played keyboards at the gig. I’m guessing Phil, but I have no memory of it. Too many pre-gig beers, I guess.

Edited by user 19 November 2017 12:03:36(UTC)  | Reason: Typos

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ROCKET MICK on 19/11/2017(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#249 Posted : 26 November 2017 23:47:29(UTC)
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I hardly know Sabotage - it ain't on the LP or my 60 mph CD single. Better than the average B-side, not as good as the average LP track, but average.
Boy, did Bernard have some shite lyrics in this period - Crock the shit, Pisser in the League, even Primitive Notion which is one of the time's strongest songs musically.
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ROCKET MICK on 27/11/2017(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#250 Posted : 27 November 2017 07:11:39(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
I hardly know Sabotage - it ain't on the LP or my 60 mph CD single. Better than the average B-side, not as good as the average LP track, but average.
Boy, did Bernard have some shite lyrics in this period - Crock the shit, Pisser in the League, even Primitive Notion which is one of the time's strongest songs musically.


Which 60MPH single have you got then? It’s on the UK CD1 . UK CD2 doesn’t have it though so maybe that’s what you’ve got. It’s also on the 60MPH DVD single . They released a few DVD singles around the time of Get Ready. Sabotage is alright , a decent b side. I rate it above Behind Closed Doors .
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ROCKET MICK on 27/11/2017(UTC)
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