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The Ruts  
#1 Posted : 06 August 2015 10:56:12(UTC)
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As I'm sure we've all seen, Lol Tolhurst from The Cure had a go at Hooky:

http://craigjparker.blogspot.co...ous-comments-in-new.html

At the end, they bring up the Sunkist ad. Now, as far as I was aware, it didn't happen and that clip was put together for the New Order Story documentary.

Was that the case?




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Rocket Mick on 06/08/2015(UTC)
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Johnny James  
#2 Posted : 06 August 2015 12:18:56(UTC)
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The advert is genuine, as are the altered lyrics you can hear.
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Rocket Mick on 06/08/2015(UTC)
Alexey Fyodorovich  
#3 Posted : 19 April 2019 23:08:24(UTC)
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So, I just noticed tonight, after all these years, that the very end of the Brain Mix of Blue Monday (from the EU Blue Monday 95 CD single) includes the lyrics from said Sunkist ad, but somewhat buried in the mix. I had to rewind the CD, play the same section again, and listen carefully to make sure I was hearing what I thought I was hearing.
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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#4 Posted : 19 April 2019 23:44:54(UTC)
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I thought they recorded the music for the ad, but didn't submit it and the ad was never broadcast?
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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
Johnny James  
#5 Posted : 20 April 2019 00:08:52(UTC)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2g9UJdH4MM

The ad certainly exists, no idea how much, if at all, it was broadcast.
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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
aysie  
#6 Posted : 20 April 2019 00:29:11(UTC)
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My understanding/ memory has always been that the Sunkist advert never happened - the footage/ audio in the link was created specifically as part of the (highly reliable) neworderstory doc to illustrate the story. If you listen to the start of the clip linked above, you hear Bernard saying "Well, he [Rob] stopped us doing the Sunkist advert...."

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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
Johnny James  
#7 Posted : 20 April 2019 00:39:42(UTC)
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Two versions of the ad do exist. What you see and hear in that clip is most of one of them.

So it seems to be the case that it might have been stopped after it was recorded and filmed.

Edited by user 20 April 2019 00:45:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
aysie  
#8 Posted : 20 April 2019 01:02:33(UTC)
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Right, maybe it did all happen then - I know that you will have seen a bunch of stuff. It's a curious little episode. In Bernard's interview, he also mentions he couldn't get through trying to record it without laughing, so that and the Rob-stopped-us-doing-it statement were why I'd always figured the Sunkist video was redone circa 1993 for the purposes of the doc. Certainly, the heavy-metal-TBTHOG-Order clips and that cheesy voiceover in the ad clip seem remarkably arch for Sunkist to ever have actually signed off on for use in that period. But part of the joy of t'Order is often not knowing, and I'm always happy to be wrong. If there's a definitive Sunkist Ad box set, I'm definitely all-in for it!
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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
Alexey Fyodorovich  
#9 Posted : 20 April 2019 01:08:31(UTC)
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I remember reading somewhere that the track, in addition to the altered lyrics, was also remixed for its appearance in the advert by Mike "Hitman" Wilson, who was also responsible for the track MTO, the b-side of the Run 2 single.

Here's the part of the Brain Mix that includes the lyrics from the Sunkist ad which is, as far as I'm aware, the only appearance of those lyrics in a commercially available version of the song: https://youtu.be/nTpK6KR4J3c?t=286

Edited by user 20 April 2019 01:13:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#10 Posted : 20 April 2019 02:21:08(UTC)
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I noticed all the 95 Blue Monday remixes used a different vocal take to the original 1983 and 1988 versions. Perhaps the whole vocal was re-recorded at the time they were putting together the Sunkist ad and that vocal was provided to the 95 remixers - hence the lines from the non-ad appearing at the end of the 'Brain Mix'.

And regarding the ad, just because footage exists with visuals attached to the music, doesn't mean this is the actual ad and that it ever got broadcast.

Edited by user 20 April 2019 02:22:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#11 Posted : 20 April 2019 03:00:40(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
I noticed all the 95 Blue Monday remixes used a different vocal take to the original 1983 and 1988 versions. Perhaps the whole vocal was re-recorded at the time they were putting together the Sunkist ad and that vocal was provided to the 95 remixers - hence the lines from the non-ad appearing at the end of the 'Brain Mix'.


I remember reading somewhere back in the day that Barney re-recorded the vocals for Blue Monday in 1988, ready for the Quincey / Potoker remix. However, the remixers decided against using these, opting for the original 1983 vocals.

As regards the '95 version, I've always assumed what you said above; that the vocals on these mixes were the ones recorded, but never used, back in 1988. I can't imagine that Sumner went back into the studio in '95 to re-record them (the band being in 'non-New Order mode' at the time).

It certainly seems possible that Sumner recorded the Sunkist lines at the same time as the new vocal (i.e. in 1988). As you pointed out, this would certainly explain why those lines made it onto a '95 remix. Perhaps these were accidentally released and shouldn't've been 'leaked' to remixers.


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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
Johnny James  
#12 Posted : 20 April 2019 03:05:37(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
I noticed all the 95 Blue Monday remixes used a different vocal take to the original 1983 and 1988 versions. Perhaps the whole vocal was re-recorded at the time they were putting together the Sunkist ad and that vocal was provided to the 95 remixers - hence the lines from the non-ad appearing at the end of the 'Brain Mix'.

And regarding the ad, just because footage exists with visuals attached to the music, doesn't mean this is the actual ad and that it ever got broadcast.


There is a re-recorded vocal, done in 88 for the remix project and not used/released.

Edited by user 20 April 2019 03:07:10(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#13 Posted : 20 April 2019 03:21:39(UTC)
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Incidentally, does anyone know other adverts which have included the band's music?

Ones that I know of are:

Sunkist (US) (1988) (Blue Monday)
American Express Blue (UK) (1998 and again in 2001) (Blue Monday)
Ford Falcon (Australia) (2002) (Slow Jam)
VW Golf GTi (Germany?) (2004) (Frenté's version of BLT)
Mars (UK) (2006) (Blue Monday)
Indesit Moon (?) (2007) (Hey Now What You Doing)
Absolut Vodka (?) (2009) (Fall On Your Sword's version of Ceremony)
Mars (UK) (2010) (World In Motion)
BMV 6 Series (?) (Moby's version of New Dawn Fades)
BT Plus (UK) (2018) (Blue Monday)
Calvin Klein (2019) (True Faith)

Any I've missed?
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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
NotAMod  
#14 Posted : 20 April 2019 03:31:23(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
I noticed all the 95 Blue Monday remixes used a different vocal take to the original 1983 and 1988 versions. Perhaps the whole vocal was re-recorded at the time they were putting together the Sunkist ad and that vocal was provided to the 95 remixers - hence the lines from the non-ad appearing at the end of the 'Brain Mix'.


I remember reading somewhere back in the day that Barney re-recorded the vocals for Blue Monday in 1988, ready for the Quincey / Potoker remix. However, the remixers decided against using these, opting for the original 1983 vocals.

As regards the '95 version, I've always assumed what you said above; that the vocals on these mixes were the ones recorded, but never used, back in 1988. I can't imagine that Sumner went back into the studio in '95 to re-record them (the band being in 'non-New Order mode' at the time).

It certainly seems possible that Sumner recorded the Sunkist lines at the same time as the new vocal (i.e. in 1988). As you pointed out, this would certainly explain why those lines made it onto a '95 remix. Perhaps these were accidentally released and shouldn't've been 'leaked' to remixers.


I was always under the impression the new vocal for the 1995 BM remixes were recorded at the time the whole Best/Rest Of project was being put together by London Records.

After all around the same time Bernard - plus Arthur Baker - put together the revamped Let's Go (Nothing For Me) that ended up on the US/Qwest version of The Best Of.

There was similar er 'confusion' regarding old/new vocals for the Confusion re-release in 2002; multiple remixes featuring the old vocal, new vocal or a mix of the two...
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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#15 Posted : 20 April 2019 03:52:56(UTC)
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It's possible that Sumner recorded them in '95. I just always assumed that they were the unused '88 vocals.
Mainly due to the fact that the band were in 'can't be arsed' mode around '95 and probably thought 'why bother re-recording them, when we have unheard versions sitting in the vaults'.

With Let's Go, I think Baker / Sumner used the vocals recorded in 1987. From another thread:

Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
Some details:

The original (and unreleased) version was fully recorded (with vocals) as part of the Low Life sessions late 84 in Britannia Row. In Jan 85 it was even part of an early draft for the album. By mid Jan however they replaced it with The Perfect Kiss (the band's first single on an album). There is a very rough recording of this in circulation.

Fast forward to the Salvation session (Pluto Studios), they totally re-recorded the track and do seem to have also recorded vocals for this as there is a rough mix in circulation. These vocals are a close match to the ones you hear on the 94 version.

The 94 version seems to have been reworked and re-produced using the Salvation multitracks, including the vocals recorded (but not used) from that session.



The Confusion thing was always puzzling to me. There's some of those mixes, still to this day, that I have trouble working out which vocal they've used. Some of them are easy to spot, but others not so much. I think some of them use Sumner's backing vocals from the '83 version high in the mix. Also, I've also suspected that one or two of them might use the '87 vocals, at least in part.
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NotAMod on 20/04/2019(UTC), Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
NotAMod  
#16 Posted : 20 April 2019 04:02:21(UTC)
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Thanks. I didn't know that.
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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
Debaser  
#17 Posted : 20 April 2019 04:09:59(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NotAMod Go to Quoted Post

I was always under the impression the new vocal for the 1995 BM remixes were recorded at the time the whole Best/Rest Of project was being put together by London Records.

After all around the same time Bernard - plus Arthur Baker - put together the revamped Let's Go (Nothing For Me) that ended up on the US/Qwest version of The Best Of.


^ Seconded.

As for the youtube clip that Mr Zeiter linked to, has anyone ever read the comments underneath? I did some time ago, and they're still there.
If this guy is who he says he is/was, then you kind of have an answer as to whether it was ever broadcast:

Cary Raffle:
Quote:
I was the vp and manager of the Sunkist account at their ad agency when this demo was created I think twas 1988. I am still heart broken to this day that we could not get our client to use this music in their campaign. It wasn't about the money, they just had really conservative taste.


So Mr Raffles' vcersion of events suggests this was a demo advert made by the ad agency (clearly with the vox re-recorded) but Sunkist themselves didn't want to go with it. The fact that there are clips from the TBTHOG vid would seem to comfirm (to me) that this wasn't a final version of the advert.

Furthernore I wouldn't be surprised if Rob didn't actually stop them doing the Sunkist advert (why would they have even recorded the new vox if he stopped them?). Perhaps it simply didn't happen because Sunkist didn't want it - the ad agency failed to sell the idea to Sunkist. So a different spin may have been put on the story by people (Rob himself?) at the Factory/NO end of the 'deal'. No one likes to say they were rejected, right? Why print the truth when you can print the legend?
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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#18 Posted : 20 April 2019 07:31:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
There is a re-recorded vocal, done in 88 for the remix project and not used/released.


So are the '88 vocals the ones that were used for the '95 mixes or did Bernard re-record them again in '95?

Originally Posted by: Debaser Go to Quoted Post
As for the youtube clip that Mr Zeiter linked to, has anyone ever read the comments underneath? I did some time ago, and they're still there.
If this guy is who he says he is/was, then you kind of have an answer as to whether it was ever broadcast:

Cary Raffle:
Quote:
I was the vp and manager of the Sunkist account at their ad agency when this demo was created I think twas 1988. I am still heart broken to this day that we could not get our client to use this music in their campaign. It wasn't about the money, they just had really conservative taste.


So Mr Raffles' vcersion of events suggests this was a demo advert made by the ad agency (clearly with the vox re-recorded) but Sunkist themselves didn't want to go with it. The fact that there are clips from the TBTHOG vid would seem to comfirm (to me) that this wasn't a final version of the advert.

Furthernore I wouldn't be surprised if Rob didn't actually stop them doing the Sunkist advert (why would they have even recorded the new vox if he stopped them?). Perhaps it simply didn't happen because Sunkist didn't want it - the ad agency failed to sell the idea to Sunkist. So a different spin may have been put on the story by people (Rob himself?) at the Factory/NO end of the 'deal'. No one likes to say they were rejected, right? Why print the truth when you can print the legend?


Pretty interesting stuff. Thanks for the info.

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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#19 Posted : 20 April 2019 08:18:57(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
The Confusion thing was always puzzling to me. There's some of those mixes, still to this day, that I have trouble working out which vocal they've used. Some of them are easy to spot, but others not so much. I think some of them use Sumner's backing vocals from the '83 version high in the mix. Also, I've also suspected that one or two of them might use the '87 vocals, at least in part.

None of the 2002 Confusion remixes use any of the 1987 re-recording vocals, principally because the original 1983 and 2002 versions are all in D minor, and the 1987 version is in A flat minor. Early promos of the 2002 mixes all featured the 1983 vocals. Barney recorded a new vocal that was used in some of the mixes on the CD single and the Koma & Bones mixes on Retro and the 12 x 12" vinyl.

Edited by user 20 April 2019 08:26:07(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
negative1  
#20 Posted : 20 April 2019 11:54:01(UTC)
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Not directly related, but I wonder if those re-recorded vocals were used in the 2017 rock band version of blue monday.


later
-1

Edited by user 20 April 2019 11:55:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#21 Posted : 20 April 2019 12:36:06(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
The Confusion thing was always puzzling to me. There's some of those mixes, still to this day, that I have trouble working out which vocal they've used. Some of them are easy to spot, but others not so much. I think some of them use Sumner's backing vocals from the '83 version high in the mix. Also, I've also suspected that one or two of them might use the '87 vocals, at least in part.

None of the 2002 Confusion remixes use any of the 1987 re-recording vocals, principally because the original 1983 and 2002 versions are all in D minor, and the 1987 version is in A flat minor. Early promos of the 2002 mixes all featured the 1983 vocals. Barney recorded a new vocal that was used in some of the mixes on the CD single and the Koma & Bones mixes on Retro and the 12 x 12" vinyl.


Thanks. I didn't know about the differences in key.

Originally Posted by: negative1 Go to Quoted Post
Not directly related, but I wonder if those re-recorded vocals were used in the 2017 rock band version of blue monday.


later
-1


They sound like the original 1983 vocals to me. Maybe a bit more echoey.
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Rocket Mick on 22/04/2019(UTC)
jasonk848  
#22 Posted : 23 April 2019 11:29:20(UTC)
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Speaking of the Brain mix and the Sunkist vocals on the end. How do we know that is actually real? The mix is real, yes, and on the promo 12" and promo cd

https://www.discogs.com/NewOrder-BlueMonday-95/release/149954
https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Blue-Monday/release/1301980

But how do we know the song on Youtube with Sunkist lyrics is actually the recording from that promo? Who here has it readily available to listen to and confirm?

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Rocket Mick on 23/04/2019(UTC)
Mr Discography  
#23 Posted : 24 April 2019 05:00:55(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jasonk848 Go to Quoted Post
Speaking of the Brain mix and the Sunkist vocals on the end. How do we know that is actually real? The mix is real, yes, and on the promo 12" and promo cd

https://www.discogs.com/NewOrder-BlueMonday-95/release/149954
https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Blue-Monday/release/1301980

But how do we know the song on Youtube with Sunkist lyrics is actually the recording from that promo? Who here has it readily available to listen to and confirm?



Sounds like the same vocal take to me - albeit digitally sped up a bit for the Brain Mix's faster tempo.
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Rocket Mick on 25/04/2019(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#24 Posted : 25 April 2019 03:40:47(UTC)
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I think the ad was made but never broadcast in the end, despite the Brain snippet. One of the probs was that Bernard kept pissing himself, though they didn't mind for Every Little Cunts.
Bernard was the only one really involved in the 94 / 95 ripoffs, mainly 1963 / 95, which paradoxically sounds more NOy than the original. Hooky criticised them later, but if he felt that strongly why not try to stop them being released? Probably easier than doing something new.
It always makes me laugh when the Cure knock NO and users of this forum get annoyed. What do you expect them to say? 'Boy, we SUCK! Fuck me, are we shit or what. Buy New Order records instead, they piss all over ours. WE ARE SHIIIIIITTT.'

Edited by user 25 April 2019 03:42:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 25/04/2019(UTC)
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