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Mapping The Definitive Editions - Technique
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange  Originally Posted by: lee Originally Posted by: Jcp7 VP, R&R, Run - Big world Café. I think they did dream attack too but it wasn't broadcast...i'm sure i've seen it somewhere Yeah, Dream Attack was partially shown on a 'special' programme a few months later: 'Big World Café - Extra Special', Channel 4, 28/08/89 I think Johnny James mentioned that the footage from the two Big World Café shows was either unobtainable from the Channel Four archives or pretty much unusable. Or did I imagine this? It's a shame if so, as I love that performance. The master of the main show is missing, so all we'll be able to do is use someone's VHS of it.
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Originally Posted by: lee Originally Posted by: Jcp7 VP, R&R, Run - Big world Café. I think they did dream attack too but it wasn't broadcast...i'm sure i've seen it somewhere Is 1963 from one of the american technique concerts on some dvd as an extra...so i'm guessing the full concert will have been filmed There was that weird footage where Dream Attack was live but 1963 was dubbed over with the audio from the recorded version. Weird. I reckon there’s a lot of live footage that just hasn’t been seen yet though.
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James
The master of the main show is missing, so all we'll be able to do is use someone's VHS of it.
Thanks for confirming, JJ, I thought I hadn't imagined it. Although, I'd be relatively happy with a remaster of a VHS (if that's all we can get), it would be frustrating that, presumably, the Dream Attack footage would remain incomplete. Edit: Hmmm - you mentioned 'main show'. I guess it's possibly that the master tape of the later 'Dream Attack' show, might still be available. Edited by user 28 October 2024 01:15:40(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Originally Posted by: Johnny James
The master of the main show is missing, so all we'll be able to do is use someone's VHS of it.
Thanks for confirming, JJ, I thought I hadn't imagined it. Although, I'd be relatively happy with a remaster of a VHS (if that's all we can get), it would be frustrating that, presumably, the Dream Attack footage would remain incomplete. Edit: Hmmm - you mentioned 'main show'. I guess it's possibly that the master tape of the later 'Dream Attack' show, might still be available. Yeah, you can see this on the BFI database, the later show appears not to be lost. https://collections-sear...hoiceFilmWorks/150348912Multiple archive formats available.
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Here's a suggestion for a digital re-issue of all the 7" singles that I'd like to see, principally to get the rare B-side edits out there on streaming and download, as well as the sometimes differing artwork the 7" releases had. Either bring it out next year (if there's to be another lengthy gap between Definitive Edition sets, as they did with 'Substance'), after the 'Technique' set, or maybe even later when all the sets are complete. Would be a good companion to the ongoing 12" single digital re-releases. I've only included the 26 singles up to 'Here To Stay', as no single since then has had any B-sides, and the radio versions since then are widely available on 'Singles' or subsequent digital single releases. In some cases there was never a physical 7", but I've included what I think would've made the best A+B side combination at the time. In some cases, there's more than two tracks (such as 'The Perfect Kiss' which had two different promo 7 inches, each with unique edits). Would love to see these all out digitally to mop up some of those rare tracks. Also sure many collectors would love a 26 x 7" physical box set of all of these as well (if economical practicable to manufacture)! - Ceremony [4:38] / In A Lonely Place (7" version) [4:39]
- Procession [4:30] / Everything's Gone Green (7" Edit) [4:19]
- Temptation (7" Version) [5:24] / Hurt (7" Version) [4:46]
- Blue Monday (7" Edit) [?:??] / The Beach (7" Edit – if there is one) [?:??]
- Confusion (7" Edit) [4:09] / Confusion (Rough Trade 7") [3:38]
- Thieves Like Us (7" Edit) [3:56] / Lonesome Tonight (7" Edit) [3:53]
- The Perfect Kiss (FBN 7") [4:23] / The Kiss Of Death (FBN 7" Edit) [5:10] / The Perfect Kiss (UK Promo 7") [3:50] / The Kiss Of Death (UK Promo 7" Edit) [3:00]
- Sub-Culture (7" Edit) [3:25] / Dub-Vulture (7" Edit) [3:37] / Sub-Culture (FBN 7" Remix Edit) [4:58]
- Shellshock (7" Edit) [4:24] / Thieves Like Us (Instrumental Edit) [3:57]
- State Of The Nation (7" Edit) [3:31] / Shame Of The Nation (7" Edit) [3:35]
- Bizarre Love Triangle (7" Remix Edit) [3:45] / Bizarre Dub Triangle (7" Edit) [3:28]
- True Faith (7" Edit) [4:12] / 1963 [5:32]
- Touched By The Hand Of God (7" Edit) [3:43] / Touched By The Hand Of Dub (7" Edit) [4:12]
- Blue Monday 1988 (7" Version) / Beach Buggy (7" Edit) [4:20]
- Fine Time (7" Edit) [3:10] / Don't Do It [4:33]
- Round & Round (7" Version) [4:00] / Best & Marsh (7" Edit) [3:34]
- Run 2 (7" Remix) [3:38] / MTO [3:43]
- World In Motion [4:32] / World In Motion (The B-Side) [4:48]
- Regret [4:10] / Regret (The New Order Mix) [5:12]
- Ruined In A Day (Radio Edit) [3:59] / Vicious Circle (The New Order Mix) [4:07]
- World (The Price Of Love) (Radio Edit) [3:38] / World (The Price Of Love) (Perfecto Radio Edit) [4:04]
- Spooky (Minimix) [3:51] / Spooky (Radio Edit) [3:46]
- 1963 (95 Remix Edit) [4:02] / Let's Go [3:55]
- Crystal (Radio Edit) [4:19] / Behind Closed Doors [5:26]
- 60 Miles An Hour (Radio Edit) [3:56] / Sabotage [4:50]
- Here To Stay (Radio Edit) [3:56] / Player In The League [5:36] / Such A Good Thing [4:08] - note: I didn't want to repeat the World In Motion 2002 re-release, so included 'Such A Good Thing' with this
Thoughts?
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Since you ask, here's my 2p:
I cannot stand 7" edits and never listen to them. Give me the full glory of the song, or even better, an extended mix. This is one of Neworder's strongest points and a 7" edit is anathema to me.
If there ever were to be a physical CD Singles box, I would consider it (7" edits and all) but I suspect the official 'Recycle' concept is long since redundant.
I'd probably swerve a digital box set, as I have pretty much everything I need from TPOI's magnificent but unofficial Recycle project back in the day.
The Definitive Album Boxes however, are things of passion and rare beauty and I'm all in on them.
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Originally Posted by: Rorschach Since you ask, here's my 2p:
I cannot stand 7" edits and never listen to them. Give me the full glory of the song, or even better, an extended mix. This is one of Neworder's strongest points and a 7" edit is anathema to me. Oh, as with you, I almost universally prefer the 12" or album versions over their 7"/edit counterparts. However they do exist, and I'd like remastered digital copies of those that are still unavailable on CD/digital (the B-side edits and dubs). I think a 7" digital reissue campaign would achieve that nicely. Edited by user 31 October 2024 06:21:43(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Would love to see these all out digitally to mop up some of those rare tracks. Also sure many collectors would love a 26 x 7" physical box set of all of these as well (if economical practicable to manufacture)!
If we consider Krafty, J.E.T., WFTSC etc. we could stretch it to 30 7"s approx. Perhaps one box would be too expensive, but it could be three boxes with 10 singles each, like this: 
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Originally Posted by: Mr. Disco Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Would love to see these all out digitally to mop up some of those rare tracks. Also sure many collectors would love a 26 x 7" physical box set of all of these as well (if economical practicable to manufacture)!
If we consider Krafty, J.E.T., WFTSC etc. we could stretch it to 30 7"s approx. There are others you could include, such as 'True Faith 94' (which did have a 7") and 'Blue Monday 95' (which had a promo 7" backed with 'Blue Monday 1988', and a promo 2-track CD backed with the Plutone Radio Edit). I chose to mirror the tracklist of the 'Singles' compilation for my list above. It also gets a bit tricky for later singles deciding what track to put on the B-side when there's no actual B-side or band-made dub. Guess it'd be whatever remix also has an edited version short enough for to fit on a 7", or a promo radio edit shorter than the single version (as most of the 'Music Complete' singles had). So you could choose from any of these 11/13 extra digital / physical singles and tracks to pad out the set: - Rocking Carol [3:35] / Ode To Joy [3:59] - possibly..?
- True Faith 94 (Radio Edit) / True Faith (Perfecto Radio Edit) [4:06]
- Blue Monday (Hardfloor Radio Edit) [3:47] / Blue Monday (Plutone Radio Edit) [3:47]
- Krafty (Single Edit) [3:50] / Krafty (Re-Edit Of Album Version) [4:51]
- Jetstream (Radio Edit) [3:46] / Jetstream (Richard X Remix) (Edit) [3:36]
- Waiting For The Sirens' Call (Radio Edit) [3:53] / Temptation (Secret Machines Remix) [4:39] / Waiting For The Sirens' Call (Band Mix) [3:55] / Everything's Gone Green (Cicada Remix) / Waiting For The Sirens' Call (Jacknife Lee Remix – Edit) [4:13] / Bizarre Love Triangle (Richard X Remix – Edit) [4:13] - note: if a physical reissue, would have to be on 3 x 7 inches as per the original release
- Restless (Single Version) [4:31] / Restless (Radio Edit) [3:31]
- Tutti Frutti (Single Version) [4:20] / Tutti Frutti (Radio Edit) [3:40]
- Singularity (Single Edit) [4:12] / Singularity (Mark Reeder's Duality Remix Edit) [3:48] / Singularity (Radio Edit) [4:02]
- People On The High Line (Richard X Radio Edit) [3:38] / People On The High Line (Claptone Radio Edit) [3:32] / People On The High Line (Richard X Video Mix) [4:16]
- Be A Rebel (Edit) [3:35] / Be A Rebel (Renegade Spezial Edit) [3:10]
Edited by user 31 October 2024 10:19:33(UTC)
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Including non-Hooky material could get potentially dangerous 
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Originally Posted by: Mr. Disco Including non-Hooky material could get potentially dangerous Especially as it's on a different label.
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Happy New Year all
Apologies for the lack of anything meaningful or new but just a post to see how we feel about the release of the Technique box.
Will it be a 2025 release?
What will be on it?
What colour scheme will the box be?
Does anyone care?
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Yes i do fully intend to buy the Technique box whenever that may be. Just to complete the set of the Factory era albums if nothing else. After that? Republic box and beyond ? Not sure. It was really the definitive box sets of the 1980s/Factory albums for me.
What colour would a Technique box be? That purple ( or is it maroon?) which i guess was the most prominent colour of the album sleeve? But who knows.
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I'll buy all of them, although I admit that Technique is the last one that really appeals.
I will say though, that I would love to see some of the '98 & '01 live material that we've seen glimpses of in the past (mainly on the 511 DVD):
Apollo '98
Ally Pally '98
Olympia '01
Not least of which is because I was at all three gigs.
Apollo '98 was a fab gig. In A Lonely Place. Wow.
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Originally Posted by: EmileStrunz Happy New Year all
Apologies for the lack of anything meaningful or new but just a post to see how we feel about the release of the Technique box.
Will it be a 2025 release?
What will be on it?
What colour scheme will the box be?
Does anyone care? Be great if it came out by the end of 2025!
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A discussion on Bluesky about the alternative lyric version of "Vanishing Point" reminded me of this passage in Audrey Golden's I Thought I Heard You Speak: Women at Factory Records book. In it, Rebecca Boulton of New Order's management is discussing the recent box sets:
"So we started off with Movement, and we brought in a consultant, James Zeiter. He knows more about Factory's history, and New Order and Joy Division's history, than New Order and Joy Division do themselves, that's for sure. He's been brilliant at compiling spreadsheets of what would be available. So that's the starting place, and then the band members that are interested at being involved take a look."
There is more discussion about the band members involvement, but I just wanted everyone to appreciate that our Johnny James is (hopefully) still beavering away at that Technique set.
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Thanks Andy. I have no doubts and have even started saving up for the Technique box. ;-)
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Originally Posted by: Andy and then the band members that are interested at being involved take a look.
is this a coded way of saying that Bernard couldn't care less?  I still remember the extras on the Glasgow DVD very much felt like Bernard hadn't paid any attention to what was included (the infamous Glastonbury 81 collapse and the Wireless debacle when his autocue broke..) As for Technique - I kind of hope it's the last one, at least in the format of the existing Factory-era boxsets. Unless they can find decent early mixes, works-in-progress of Republic - I've no lasting interest in all the myriad remixes that started to appear, and the live shows started to become less interesting once they stopped developing new songs in concert and stuck to the hits.
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Originally Posted by: Andy A discussion on Bluesky about the alternative lyric version of "Vanishing Point" reminded me of this passage in Audrey Golden's I Thought I Heard You Speak: Women at Factory Records book. In it, Rebecca Boulton of New Order's management is discussing the recent box sets:
"So we started off with Movement, and we brought in a consultant, James Zeiter. He knows more about Factory's history, and New Order and Joy Division's history, than New Order and Joy Division do themselves, that's for sure. He's been brilliant at compiling spreadsheets of what would be available. So that's the starting place, and then the band members that are interested at being involved take a look."
There is more discussion about the band members involvement, but I just wanted everyone to appreciate that our Johnny James is (hopefully) still beavering away at that Technique set. Can you share a link to the Bluesky discussion? I'm on there and would be interested to read it.
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Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Originally Posted by: Andy A discussion on Bluesky about the alternative lyric version of "Vanishing Point" reminded me of this passage in Audrey Golden's I Thought I Heard You Speak: Women at Factory Records book. In it, Rebecca Boulton of New Order's management is discussing the recent box sets:
"So we started off with Movement, and we brought in a consultant, James Zeiter. He knows more about Factory's history, and New Order and Joy Division's history, than New Order and Joy Division do themselves, that's for sure. He's been brilliant at compiling spreadsheets of what would be available. So that's the starting place, and then the band members that are interested at being involved take a look."
There is more discussion about the band members involvement, but I just wanted everyone to appreciate that our Johnny James is (hopefully) still beavering away at that Technique set. Can you share a link to the Bluesky discussion? I'm on there and would be interested to read it. There isn't anything there other than comments regarding someone's pick of "Vanishing Point" in their #NewOrderTop30 (people revealing their favourite New Order tracks one day at a time over the month). I don't really participate in those "challenges", but occasionally comment on other poster's selections. VanishingPointBlueSkyEdited by user 23 April 2025 12:06:06(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GotBlueEyes Originally Posted by: Andy and then the band members that are interested at being involved take a look.
is this a coded way of saying that Bernard couldn't care less? I still remember the extras on the Glasgow DVD very much felt like Bernard hadn't paid any attention to what was included (the infamous Glastonbury 81 collapse and the Wireless debacle when his autocue broke..) As for Technique - I kind of hope it's the last one, at least in the format of the existing Factory-era boxsets. Unless they can find decent early mixes, works-in-progress of Republic - I've no lasting interest in all the myriad remixes that started to appear, and the live shows started to become less interesting once they stopped developing new songs in concert and stuck to the hits. Yes. Rebecca Boulton continues: "Steve's absolutely brilliant. He's really helpful and really keen on making sure things are good and right, but also has a sort of fan sensibility because he personally enjoys box sets and the way they are approached. He knows what he likes and what he doesn't like. Hooky's pretty good, he's got quite a lot of opinions about how things should be presented. Bernard's not really very interested."
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