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Andy  
#76 Posted : 14 September 2024 10:24:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: The Japanese One Go to Quoted Post
I have never heard New Order play anything off Movement at the gigs I attended. In fact, the one and only time they delivered the material on the first album onstage in Japan is Denial at the Tokyo show, May 1st, 1985 — their Japanese debut.

By the time they released PC&L, the group seems to have grown weary of Movement. They may regard it as a product of the transitional period from JD to NO, perhaps.

I heard Revenge play Dreams Never End for the encore in Osaka, January 30th, 1991, though. And Hooky & The Light performed the whole Movement and PC&L albums at Manchester Cathedral on January 18th, 2013, which I attended.


I've not heard anything from Movement live either. But that's likely due to not seeing them until 1987. At least "Ceremony" still gets regular outings. When you consider the success of "Temptation" (not necessarily commercially) in forging a new direction, you can understand why they left so many of those early tracks in the past. I maintain "Chosen Time" would be the best candidate for a modern rework, but theres so many later tracks to choose from, why would they bother?

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The Japanese One  
#77 Posted : 14 September 2024 12:07:02(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: The Japanese One Go to Quoted Post
I have never heard New Order play anything off Movement at the gigs I attended. In fact, the one and only time they delivered the material on the first album onstage in Japan is Denial at the Tokyo show, May 1st, 1985 — their Japanese debut.

By the time they released PC&L, the group seems to have grown weary of Movement. They may regard it as a product of the transitional period from JD to NO, perhaps.

I heard Revenge play Dreams Never End for the encore in Osaka, January 30th, 1991, though. And Hooky & The Light performed the whole Movement and PC&L albums at Manchester Cathedral on January 18th, 2013, which I attended.

I've not heard anything from Movement live either. But that's likely due to not seeing them until 1987. At least "Ceremony" still gets regular outings. When you consider the success of "Temptation" (not necessarily commercially) in forging a new direction, you can understand why they left so many of those early tracks in the past. I maintain "Chosen Time" would be the best candidate for a modern rework, but theres so many later tracks to choose from, why would they bother?

My first New Order concert was Osaka 1985. The frequency they played the songs on Movement had already dropped considerably in 1983.

Maybe they felt like distancing themselves from the album’s “JD sans Ian Curtis” vibe once they established a new identity and direction with Temptation and PC&L, while keeping Ceremony and In A Lonely Place as the almost only testimonies of their connection with the past.

https://www.setlist.fm/s.../new-order-63d6b237.html

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tapebias  
#78 Posted : 14 September 2024 12:26:04(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: The Japanese One Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: The Japanese One Go to Quoted Post
I have never heard New Order play anything off Movement at the gigs I attended. In fact, the one and only time they delivered the material on the first album onstage in Japan is Denial at the Tokyo show, May 1st, 1985 — their Japanese debut.

By the time they released PC&L, the group seems to have grown weary of Movement. They may regard it as a product of the transitional period from JD to NO, perhaps.

I heard Revenge play Dreams Never End for the encore in Osaka, January 30th, 1991, though. And Hooky & The Light performed the whole Movement and PC&L albums at Manchester Cathedral on January 18th, 2013, which I attended.

I've not heard anything from Movement live either. But that's likely due to not seeing them until 1987. At least "Ceremony" still gets regular outings. When you consider the success of "Temptation" (not necessarily commercially) in forging a new direction, you can understand why they left so many of those early tracks in the past. I maintain "Chosen Time" would be the best candidate for a modern rework, but theres so many later tracks to choose from, why would they bother?

My first New Order concert was Osaka 1985. The frequency they played the songs on Movement had already dropped considerably in 1983.

Maybe they felt like distancing themselves from the album’s “JD sans Ian Curtis” vibe once they established a new identity and direction with Temptation and PC&L, while keeping Ceremony and In A Lonely Place as the almost only testimonies of their connection with the past.

https://www.setlist.fm/s.../new-order-63d6b237.html



Chosen Time is my fav from Movement, I can live without the rest. There were so many other better songs they had that could have been on Movement such as C&W/Mesh/Procession. I though it was cool at the time not to put singles/B sides on albums but Movement would have been much better with the B sides rather than the samey dirges that ended up on it.
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Andy  
#79 Posted : 14 September 2024 16:08:21(UTC)
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I don't think I'm the only one who would rather hear "Everything's Gone Green" live more that any other Movement era track.
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The Japanese One  
#80 Posted : 14 September 2024 18:29:43(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: tapebias Go to Quoted Post

Chosen Time is my fav from Movement, I can live without the rest. There were so many other better songs they had that could have been on Movement such as C&W/Mesh/Procession. I though it was cool at the time not to put singles/B sides on albums but Movement would have been much better with the B sides rather than the samey dirges that ended up on it.

I for one prefer Movement to PC&L. And my favorite NO albums are Low Life and Brotherhood.

Procession is a great, under-appreciated song. But C&W and Mesh are no better or worse than the average tracks on Movement IMHO. Had In A Lonely Place been included in the Movement album instead of being released as a single B-side, I’d say it would have sounded another ‘dirge’. Context matters.

Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post

I don't think I'm the only one who would rather hear "Everything's Gone Green" live more that any other Movement era track.

EGG is a powerful tune. Belongs to its own and wouldn’t fit Movement as an album track.

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Andy  
#81 Posted : 14 September 2024 19:25:46(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: The Japanese One Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: tapebias Go to Quoted Post

Chosen Time is my fav from Movement, I can live without the rest. There were so many other better songs they had that could have been on Movement such as C&W/Mesh/Procession. I though it was cool at the time not to put singles/B sides on albums but Movement would have been much better with the B sides rather than the samey dirges that ended up on it.

I for one prefer Movement to PC&L. And my favorite NO albums are Low Life and Brotherhood.

Procession is a great, under-appreciated song. But C&W and Mesh are no better or worse than the average tracks on Movement IMHO. Had In A Lonely Place been included in the Movement album instead of being released as a single B-side, I’d say it would have sounded another ‘dirge’. Context matters.

Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post

I don't think I'm the only one who would rather hear "Everything's Gone Green" live more that any other Movement era track.

EGG is a powerful tune. Belongs to its own and wouldn’t fit Movement as an album track.




tapebias was the one suggesting an alternate Movement tracklisting.

I agree that "Procession" and "Everything's Gone Green" would not suit being shoehorned onto the album. The former is bit lighter and the latter is perhaps too disconnected/forward thinking to fit. Movement can't help but be more tied to their past. And there's nothing wrong with someone preferring that to the direction "EGG", "Temptation", "Blue Monday" and Power, Corruption and Lies took the group. Speaking of PC&L, though you don't prefer it, what are your thoughts on "We All Stand" and "Ultraviolence"? These tracks (and outtake/single "Murder") are the only ones on the album that I feel still have a foot in the past. Does this aspect make you look on them more fondly?
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The Japanese One  
#82 Posted : 14 September 2024 20:25:59(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Speaking of PC&L, though you don't prefer it, what are your thoughts on "We All Stand" and "Ultraviolence"? These tracks (and outtake/single "Murder") are the only ones on the album that I feel still have a foot in the past. Does this aspect make you look on them more fondly?

Not necessarily.
I didn’t give a spin to PC&L that much when it came out and I only have an impression of the album as an entirety rather than individual songs. The overall lighter and brighter sound-making undermined the darker tone of these tracks for me.

I haven’t heard Murder for decades.

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perspexorange  
#83 Posted : 15 September 2024 02:16:33(UTC)
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I really wish the band would revisit Movement tracks in a live environment.

I love every track on the album now, although it took me a long time to really get to like it.
I'd agree that Chosen Time is the best of the bunch and the one I would most love to see them resurrect live.

As for Everything's Gone Green, I never miss an opportunity to say that this is the track I most want to return to the setlist.

The thing about the Movement tracks is that they didn't really move the band forward (pardon the pun).
EGG, however, was the building blocks of everything that came afterwards. They really need to start acknowledging its importance.

Besides, it always sounds awesome live.
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Andy  
#84 Posted : 15 September 2024 09:23:55(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
I really wish the band would revisit Movement tracks in a live environment.

I love every track on the album now, although it took me a long time to really get to like it.
I'd agree that Chosen Time is the best of the bunch and the one I would most love to see them resurrect live.

As for Everything's Gone Green, I never miss an opportunity to say that this is the track I most want to return to the setlist.

The thing about the Movement tracks is that they didn't really move the band forward (pardon the pun).
EGG, however, was the building blocks of everything that came afterwards. They really need to start acknowledging its importance.

Besides, it always sounds awesome live.


The "Street Hassle" version of "Temptation" they're been playing has had a long life. It's time for it to be replaced with an "Everything's Gone Green"/"Temptation" medley.

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The Japanese One  
#85 Posted : 16 September 2024 18:39:12(UTC)
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Chosen Time is a good tune — lyrics aside, it sounds to my ears like a cousin to C&W in its sense of urgency. However, Senses, The Him and Doubts Even Here compare favorably or even better IMHO. The last two are my faves on Movement.

I sometimes feel album opener Dreams Never End doesn’t gel well with the remainder of the songs for its brightness and generally positive vibe. Might be more fitting on PC&L?

The only time I heard EGG live was in Tokyo, January 28th, 1987, and it remains the song’s only live exposure in Japan to this day. Third song on the set and not an extended, grand performance AFAIR.

Edited by user 23 September 2024 18:36:45(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Dennis Remmer  
#86 Posted : 17 September 2024 23:01:06(UTC)
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Bit late to this party…

1998 Flew to the UK for the Phoenix Festival. It was cancelled. Does that count? Oh well
2002-01-20 Gold Coast AU - Big Day Out
2002-01-23 Sydney AU - Hordern Pavilion
2012-03-03 Brisbane AU - Future Music Festival
2016-06-04 Sydney AU - Opera House / Vivid
2016-06-05 Sydney AU - Opera House / Vivid
2020-03-11 Sydney AU - Hordern Pavilion

Hooky / Light

2010-09-27 Brisbane AU - The Tivoli
2015-02-18 Brisbane AU - The Tivoli
2017-10-08 Brisbane AU - The Tivoli
2022-11-25 Brisbane AU - The Tivoli
2024-05-22 Brisbane AU - The Tivoli


My only regret is not catching them on their 1987 Brotherhood tour through the colony. I’m kicking my 17yo self as we speak.
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The Japanese One  
#87 Posted : 18 September 2024 02:08:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dennis Remmer Go to Quoted Post

Bit late to this party…

Better late than never. Thanks Dennis.

There’s no deadline for the CV submission. Anyone else?
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Andy  
#88 Posted : 18 September 2024 11:19:30(UTC)
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...continued

19. 2023.3.18 New Orleans (Orpheum Theater) The previous year's Unity Tour of the U.S. was not kind to the south and southwest. To make amends (and the most of their stateside visit for the SXSW Festival appearance), a short, satellite tour of cities in Texas (plus New Orleans in Louisiana) were scheduled. Unusually, no cities on the coasts were booked. Fun fact: The tour didn't really have a name. So I started calling it TexNOLA*23 on Setlist.fm and it stuck. If I wanted to see them this time around, I would actually have to travel out of California and see them on "foreign soil" in another state for the first time. I had already been through Texas a couple of times. And the political climate has made that state less appealing (If you believe the media, many Texans would be happy to split from the U.S., with the liberal views like those of Californians being a major reason). Although Austin differs from that mindset, and is a city I'd like to visit, I wasn't really up for seeing the group at a festival that didn't feature much else that appealed to me. I did fancy New Orleans. Despite living in South Carolina for a year, I'd never made it down there so the NOLA gig was the focus. I tried to work out the logistics of also seeing them in Houston, Texas a couple of nights before it, but it was not to be. Yes, these places are in the same country, but being over 2,000 miles and a couple of time zones away from home meant travel time would be a factor. I opted to spend more time in New Orleans instead. My local airport in Monterey didn't have any direct flights, so a layover in San Francisco would be slowing things down. Upon arriving in New Orleans the first night, I was greeted with total chaos at the airport. Unbeknownst to me, this week was also their Spring Break in the region. There were legions of college kids, all vying for taxis and ride shares. I eventually got a ride nearly two hours later. Having left home Thursday morning, it was the early hours of Friday before I'd made it to where I would be staying.

After a full Friday of dining and sightseeing (I'd gotten tips from a friend who'd once lived there), I can heartily recommend New Orleans as a destination. And though it's not really my scene, the nighttime trip down Bourbon Street lived up to its reputation: Excessive street drinking, nudity, a dominatrix whipping college kids...fun for the whole family. Once Saturday arrived, there were some whispers on social media of who would be in town. But despite my efforts this time, I wasn't able to find or organize a pre-gig meetup with anyone. The Orpheum being such a small venue (fewer than 2,000 capacity!) meant I knew to arrive early to get in line, and fortunately had the opportunity to meet some other great fans. I also was able meet a few people I'd only spoke to online previously (hello NüOrdrMan and Sandroid77). Once in the venue, the first priority was to snap up a couple of the black on black Substance New Orleans shirts that were exclusive to this gig (limited to 500). I didn't mean to be greedy but I wanted an extra so I wouldn't be reluctant to it occasionally. Mission accomplished, I headed towards the stage and was able to secure a spot near the center quite close to, but not quite on the barrier with a couple of friends. The support was from ZAS and Bernard joined Zachery onstage to sing "No Texting on the Dancefloor". While New Order's setlist offered few surprises, I'd not heard "The Perfect Kiss" for a while and it sounded magnificent. Overall, the expense and everything I went through on my travels were worth it to see the band up close in such an intimate venue. And after the gig, Viking Colin kindly gave me a badge for my efforts, despite my never actually travelling abroad for a gig. Fortunately, I was able to repay him with one of my Substance shirts, as he'd missed out before the gig. NewOrleansSetlist

After the gig, I said goodbye to some of my friends, and headed to an unofficial afterparty across town. One of the people I had met in the line (DJ Rice Cube) had booked a bar and was DJing. Fortunately, another one of the New Order fans I'd met was a local who knew the ins and outs of the area. He not only was aware of the bits to avoid, he showed the way to a late night market that served up the most amazing Muffalettta sandwich that I will ever eat. I mentioned that I said goodbye to some of my friends at the gig. Several of them had invites to the official afterparty in the exclusive club under the venue. No fake Vikings allowed. In the words of Stephen Morris "I'm not a bitter man". On the bright side, despite Sandroid77 heading north to Canada as I was heading west to go back home, we both had the same flight to a layover in Texas (unexpected Rom-Com situation alert). It was fantastic to see her again, and she told me about the afterparty and her discussions with Gillian, etc. Even though I wasn't at the official shindig, I was able to say hello to Tom Chapman in the New Orleans airport. We were both waiting in an enormous zig-zagging line, and as it circled around and I was nearby, I called out to him and held up my phone to show him its screen background image of the tour poster. He replied with a weary thumbs up. I opted not to trouble him further.

tbc...

Edited by user 30 September 2024 10:51:27(UTC)  | Reason: Added setlist

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Andy  
#89 Posted : 30 September 2024 10:48:55(UTC)
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...continued

20. 2023.11.15 Inglewood, California (YouTube Theater) Cast your mind back to 2023, when the news of the Darker Waves festival broke. Certainly there have been many great festivals over the decades. But the announced lineup focused on just these genres seemed dubious to many: New Order, Tears for Fears, The B-52s, Echo & the Bunnymen, DEVO, Soft Cell, The Psychedelic Furs, The Human League, Orchestral Manouvres in the Dark, Violent Femmes, X, Clan of Xymox, The Chameleons (and, as they say, many more) at the same one day festival raised some eyebrows. The seemingly amateurish gig poster didn't help assuage doubt. But once the bands themselves made their announcements, it became all too real. The speculation began: Would New Order schedule a tour to make the most of their visit (the West Coast, North America, South America?), or would it be a one-off like Texas 2015? It turns out it was neither. They merely scheduled one additional gig: In Inglewood, which is about 40 miles from the beach that would host the Darker Waves fest. Annoyingly, that satellite gig would occur three days before the festival, which is a 5+ hour drive from Monterey Bay. I wasn't going to drive there and back twice (and flights seemed like overkill), so it meant a Wednesday to Sunday trip was the plan. I had been chatting a bit with the lovely Canadian Viking, Sandroid77. But as the festival drew nearer, she had too many other things going on and opted out of attending. I took consolation with the thought that a long distance relationship (yes, I was getting way ahead of myself) was probably more than I could take on anyway. On the bright side, in anticipation of seeing her (and the possibility of attending an all day gig on the beach with sweltering heat), I put myself on a fitness regimen in case going topless was a consideration. Yes, I am vain.

I hit the road Wednesday and surveyed the area in Inglewood between the venue and motel once I'd arrived. Inglewood had a bit of a rough reputation back when I'd seen The Cure at the Forum in 1987 and Depeche Mode there a few years later. It looks alright these days, but I opted for a ride share instead of walking. Unfortunately, the driver seemed confused about where to drop me off at the massive entertainment complex, which also includes SoFi Stadium. So I ended up having to walk about 15-20 minutes before I found the entrance of the theatre. Despite my months long assumption of typical Southern California weather, Manchester was in the house. It began to rain on my walk. And it continued to sprinkle down as we waited for the staff to belatedly open the gates and let us in to the venue. Sadly, the merch on offer was not as enticing as the special Substance T from New Orleans. I had sort of been hoping for something unique. Perhaps featuring the orange Republic floatie that had been on the tour poster, but it was not to be. From there it was off to check out my vantage point and meet up with Screwball, a SoCal-based Viking. He offered up a pog (like a Poker Chip, with a design to commemorate the gig). This seems to be the North American equivalent of the Viking badges, NüOrderMan had given me one in New Orleans.

But then it was time for support act Blossoms. I actually really like their take on pop music, which doesn't necessarily follow pop trends. Though I wasn't expecting them to be stellar live, I was happy to finally get the chance after backing out of attending a 2019 gig with my Ex (we had bought the tickets before the breakup). Unfortunely, the sound mix was appalling. The bass was super boomy which was worrying. This was quite a new venue, and I'd have thought acoustics would have been a focus in the design. My recollection is that the sound didn't really improve during their set, which although strong, didn't include my favourite song of theirs (gem "How Long Will This Last"). Fortunately, by the the time the Wagner/"Touched by the Hand of God" intro began to ring out, the sound was sorted. But with "Crystal", "Regret", "Age of Consent", "Ceremony" and "Restless" following, it was clear the band wasn't reimagining the setlist. The return of a slightly reworked (as compared to the 2011 version) of "Isolation" being the only track that was somewhat surprising. I was happy to hear the "Bizarre Love Triangle"/"Vanishing Point" medley though. It had been absent from the New Orleans set. Strangely, a photo of a physical setlist that was posted listed the encore as "Decades/Atmosphere, Transmission, LWTUA". I wouldn't think they were considering a medley of the first two, more likely deciding to make a decision between them in the moment. But we will never know, a time curfew meant they only ended up encoring with "Atmosphere" and "Love Will Tear Us Apart". All in all, it was still a great show. Despite the setlist quibbles, I'm always delighted that they are still performing well. Not only for my enjoyment, but for the multitudes of people that are invariably seeing them for the first time. Emboldened by the sounds still pounding in my head, I opted to not wait a ridiculously long time for a ride share and walked back to the Motel. Perhaps I was a bit disappointed that Inglewood had been cleaned up, and wanted to tempt fate. Regardless, the walk was uneventful, I was already thinking about heading out of there in the morning. InglewoodSetlist

I now had Thursday and Friday to kill before heading to Huntington Beach for Darker Waves. I'd decided to spend those days based in Hollywood. A massive amount of dining options and proximity to Amoeba Music were paramount. I also spent some time hiking around Griffith Observatory, which is a great experience. Early Saturday, I checked out in Hollywood and hit the road for the beach. Well, Huntington Beach. I again left my car at the motel and used ride sharing to avoid parking fees and other potential issues. While the weather was slightly better, amazingly there was still the threat of rain. Certainly that translated to hope for the multitudes of Goths that were descending into this uncharted territory of surf and sand. I saw very few people in short pants (like those I'd packed, but not worn), but many in full Gothic regalia. It wasn't quite Cruel World, being tempered with more postpunk, synth pop and, frankly, more normal looking fans, but people watching was definitely top of the scale. I won't go into the other acts as there were far too many, but I must say that it's very disappointing that this festival doesn't seem to be returning.

21. 2023.11.18 Huntington Beach, California (Darker Waves) As expected, New Order's Darker Waves set was merely an edited version of YouTube Theater's. One improvement that did stand out was their slotting in "Be a Rebel" after "Your Silent Face". I understand they want to feature their "newest" song, but using it to up the tempo after "KW1" was a much better place for it than being sandwiched between beloved bangers "The Perfect Kiss" and "Substance". I hate to say it, but these shorter festival sets really seem to suit the band. As with the Music Tastes Good festival in 2018, they really knocked it out of the park. The promoters wisely offset the stagetimes of New Order and other headliner Tears for Fears, which meant there was a massive crowd on hand. And it gave me a chance to catch most of the TfF set afterwards. Upon leaving the festival, there was again a massive demand for ride shares. I instead set off on foot, the music and memories swimming in my head. DarkerWavesSetlist

I wouldn't want a short festival set to be my swansong of New Order gigs. But only time will tell...

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The Japanese One  
#90 Posted : 30 September 2024 21:37:13(UTC)
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Andy—

Many thanks for your taking time to deliver the great series of your detailed memoirs for us New Order nuts. It was all fun to relish and soak them up. An American Viking Saga.

Your tale of New Order and Tears For Fears co-headlining Darker Waves jogged my memory of Summer Sonic Osaka 2012. For this event, New Order were to headline the sub-stage. A thunderstorm hit the area in the afternoon, and the festival organizers decided to hold the performances on the outdoor stages for safety until the weather improved. The torrential rain stopped after a couple of hours and the festival resumed, but from then on, the timetable was rearranged and every act had to shorten their set, New Order and the sub Garbage included.
We had to resign ourselves to a seven-song, mini-headlining set of New Order that lasted a tad shy of 50 minutes. The performance was compact but strong and very focused, though. Barney sung the first verse of Krafty in Japanese. Short length aside, not a bad show at all.

The delay of the schedule went with some unexpected merits. The foul weather somehow affected the proceedings of the indoor stage at the some five thousand-capacity gymnasium, pushing back the set times and resulting in the later finish than planned. This offset the partial clash of indoor headliner Tears For Fears with New Order’s set on the original time table and enabled me to catch the whole 1 hr and 15 mins set of TFF, their second ever visit of Japan since 1985 and their last so far (I had seen them at the Festival Hall, Osaka, on their first tour). Sometimes bad events have silver linings.

Edited by user 01 October 2024 13:22:23(UTC)  | Reason: word change

thanks 3 users thanked The Japanese One for this useful post.
Andy on 30/09/2024(UTC), Jul on 01/10/2024(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 13/10/2024(UTC)
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