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Comparison and exploration of Low-life tracks and extras VS album - more fun with the songs

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negative1		#1 Posted : 04 March 2023 15:06:00(UTC)
Rank: Member with Substance Groups: Registered Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,184 Thanks: 926 times Was thanked: 1772 time(s) in 1186 post(s)		i think its interesting to hear, and explore the extra songs in the boxset. you can hear most on youtube, and there is plenty of software out there to experiment with. we have already heard some great versions of 'lets go' with alternate lyrics, so probably don't need to go over those. also, earlier, i posted a vocal addition to love vigilantes: http://forums.neworderon...ts&m=38209#post38209 so the main songs are: 1 love vigilantes 2 the perfect kiss 3 this time of night 4 sunrise 5 elegia 6 sooner than you think 7 subculture 8 face up 1 love vigilantes is 6 bpm slower than the instrumental, also writing session 2 many mixes to check out 3 no extras 4 do comparison 5 various long versions 6 2 comparison tracks 7 do comparison, many extra mixes 8 do comparison new inst CD2-1 Love Vigilantes (TV Pitch Instrumental Edit) 6:14 CD2-2 The Perfect Kiss (Writing Session Recording) 3:17 xthis time of night CD2-11 Sunrise (Writing Session Recording) 4:32 -elegia CD2-7 Sub-Culture (Album Session Early Instrumental Version) 6:07 CD2-8 Face Up (Writing Session Recording) 3:34 make inst CD2-6 Sooner Than You Think (Album Session Unedited Version) 6:24 add new vocal CD2-12 Love Vigilantes (Writing Session Recording) 4:18 CD2-13 Sooner Than You Think (Writing Session Recording) 3:04 lets see how it goes. also, messing around with subculture vocals, maybe autotune the album ones, or use the remix ones? some notes: later \| \| \| \| \|\| \| \|\| neg a t ive 1 Edited by user 05 March 2023 10:15:12(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified

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Fotz		#2 Posted : 05 March 2023 09:16:16(UTC)
Rank: Dead Soul Groups: Registered Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 2,655 Location: Down on the farm Thanks: 676 times Was thanked: 3733 time(s) in 2656 post(s)		Go for it negzy lad

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negative1		#3 Posted : 05 March 2023 10:11:58(UTC)
Rank: Member with Substance Groups: Registered Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,184 Thanks: 926 times Was thanked: 1772 time(s) in 1186 post(s)		01 - love vigilantes ===================== this track has a country feel to it, its a story telling song, with a twist at the end. a midtempo rock track, with some blues parts in it. bernards vocals are pretty off-key here, but intentional. i think they match the tone of the song. he does soften up in the verses though. of course, the title is never sung in the lyrics. there are also some 'do do do's in there. which is pre-bizarre love triangle. the instruments are a little more basic in the writing session version, mostly the hi-hats, and percussion from the drums, are not at the forefront. there is a much longer 45 sec instrumental outro at the end. the tv pitch version is much closer to the final version. here's the writing session with vocals: and the vocal edits: later \|\| \|\|\|\|\|\|\|\| neg ativ e1

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negative1		#4 Posted : 11 March 2023 23:09:47(UTC)
Rank: Member with Substance Groups: Registered Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,184 Thanks: 926 times Was thanked: 1772 time(s) in 1186 post(s)		some more looks into love vigilantes. this version is more acoustic, with the synths guitar and vocals here's a stripped down version, that is mostly drum and bass - vocals, so you can hear them more at forefront next, we'll move onto the perfect kiss. later \|\| \|\| \|\|\|\| \| \|\| \| negati ve 1

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negative1		#5 Posted : 25 March 2023 22:37:16(UTC)
Rank: Member with Substance Groups: Registered Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,184 Thanks: 926 times Was thanked: 1772 time(s) in 1186 post(s)		the perfect kiss ====================== this is one of the ultimate songs from new order. it probably went through a ton of revisions, and even the early live versions went through some changes. this is a super short version, and very basic with some elements of the what it evolved into. the full remixed version was editted down countless times, there were at least 9 versions of it, not including the perfect pit, or kiss of death. it would take a long time to go through all the edits, and not even including the video version, which there were several takes also. we will get to those later on. the writing session is about 3 bpm slower than the album version. but is about the same key. the vocals sound a little strange, but give a basic guide to how the song would evolve. 2 the perfect kiss 4m:49s 130.3 bpm -> writing session 3m:17s 127.6 bpm -3 bpm done -> the perfect kiss (my family remix) later \|\| \| \|\| \|\| \| \| neg ative 1 Edited by user 25 March 2023 22:38:02(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified

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negative1		#6 Posted : 28 March 2023 05:56:41(UTC)
Rank: Member with Substance Groups: Registered Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,184 Thanks: 926 times Was thanked: 1772 time(s) in 1186 post(s)		the perfect kiss has many versions, that are basically 1) the 12 inch and edits - the 12 inch mix - dub, kiss of death - substance CD edit 2) the 7 inch version - dub, kiss of death edit [unfortunately in the US, called 'instrumental'] 3) the 7 inch promo version - dub, kiss of death re-edit 4) the album version 5) the live video versions - original - alternate (retro) - edit new order, started with blue monday, having the a-side version, and a variation on the b-side, which was more of a dub. so they did that for confusion, but had beats, a capella, and an instrumental also. thieves like us had the a-side, but on a different single, they did have an instrumental also. so when the perfect kiss came out, they also put a more dub like kiss of death on the b-side, but also a very short instrumental called the perfect pit. there actually weren't any instrumentals of it, until the writing session one came out. but, it would have been interesting to hear an actual instrumental version of the song. the problem is a lot of so called instrumentals actually have vocals, or backgrounds going on, and aren't pure instrumentals either. which is why the term dub is used. however, new order doesn't even do that at times. which is what makes it confusing, like in the case of the US market, which at times does not keep the names of the songs the same as the UK. blue monday was ok, and same with confusion, but shellshock had some renaming, and bizarre love triangle, got bizarre dub triangle in the UK, but in the US, was called i don't care. so, when the 7 inch version came out, they mistakenly called it the perfect kiss (instrumental), so i thought it would be, but it wasn't, it was the kiss of death (edit). anyways, just another typical day with new order. so i did attempt to make some instrumentals, although at first some portions were getting left out, but i did go back and correct that. the first one is the main 12 inch version - the instrumental lets you hear the guitar and bass parts a lot more clearly. the remix is one of my all time favorites, and there are a lot of great segments and solos, especially the great ending. new order - the perfect kiss (instrumental v2) 8:50 the kiss of death is the same bpm, and so is the perfect pit, as parts of both can be overlaid onto this version. later \|\|\| \| \|\|\| \| \| neg ative 1

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Andy		#7 Posted : 28 March 2023 10:16:43(UTC)
Rank: Dead Soul Groups: Registered Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,218 Location: Seaside, California Thanks: 1652 times Was thanked: 3333 time(s) in 2238 post(s)		I've always thought it would have been nice for all the singles to have an extended mix (loved *Complete Music* for this) and an instrumental. Remixes could then be put on additional, limited releases if appropriate (as in not for "Procession", for example). I'm not a big Duran Duran fan, but I did appreciate around the time of their first couple of albums when they did "Night Versions" of songs. I'm not sure what the thinking was behind it, but these were not extended remixes, but actually re-recorded renditions of the songs the band re-arranged into longer, more club friendly versions. The closest thing I can think of, New Order-wise is Touched by the Hand of God. I'm not certain it's actually been re-recorded, but the original version on the soundtrack differs quite a bit from the more widely heard Arthur Baker versions. Edited by user 28 March 2023 10:19:23(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified
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50poundnote		#8 Posted : 28 March 2023 11:52:14(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Movement Groups: Registered Joined: 29/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 550 Thanks: 39 times Was thanked: 1066 time(s) in 551 post(s)		Originally Posted by: Andy The closest thing I can think of, New Order-wise is Touched by the Hand of God. I'm not certain it's actually been re-recorded, but the original version on the soundtrack differs quite a bit from the more widely heard Arthur Baker versions. Everything's Gone Green. The 12" is a different recording than the B-side to Procession.
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Johnny James		#9 Posted : 28 March 2023 12:06:31(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Brotherhood Groups: Registered Joined: 29/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 450 Location: UK Was thanked: 1036 time(s) in 450 post(s)		An even more obvious one is Temptation.

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Mr Discography		#10 Posted : 28 March 2023 13:04:28(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Brotherhood Groups: Registered Joined: 20/05/2012(UTC) Posts: 390 Thanks: 11 times Was thanked: 749 time(s) in 391 post(s)		Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Originally Posted by: Andy The closest thing I can think of, New Order-wise is Touched by the Hand of God. I'm not certain it's actually been re-recorded, but the original version on the soundtrack differs quite a bit from the more widely heard Arthur Baker versions. Everything's Gone Green. The 12" is a different recording than the B-side to Procession. You mean Temptation. The EGG 7" is the same version on the 12" with a few bars clipped from the start and a fade out.

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Andy		#11 Posted : 28 March 2023 21:38:53(UTC)
Rank: Dead Soul Groups: Registered Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,218 Location: Seaside, California Thanks: 1652 times Was thanked: 3333 time(s) in 2238 post(s)		Originally Posted by: Johnny James An even more obvious one is Temptation. True. Obviously a different recording/take which is more in the spirit of those Night Versions (although years ago, I admit to believing the myth that they were both from a single, long take). What i'm not entirely clear on is if the single mixes of "Touched by the Hand of God" (and the bonus track "Remix Version", which is merely a longer mix of "Touched by the Hand of Dub") are remixes of the soundtrack version or from a different recording.
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Fotz		#12 Posted : 29 March 2023 01:21:09(UTC)
Rank: Dead Soul Groups: Registered Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 2,655 Location: Down on the farm Thanks: 676 times Was thanked: 3733 time(s) in 2656 post(s)		Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Originally Posted by: Andy The closest thing I can think of, New Order-wise is Touched by the Hand of God. I'm not certain it's actually been re-recorded, but the original version on the soundtrack differs quite a bit from the more widely heard Arthur Baker versions. Everything's Gone Green. The 12" is a different recording than the B-side to Procession. You mean Temptation. The EGG 7" is the same version on the 12" with a few bars clipped from the start and a fade out. Yes i was puzzled by 50Pound's post. I always assumed they jusy clipped off the intro and end . Well, faded out the end for the 7". Is it actually a completely different recording?

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negative1		#13 Posted : 29 March 2023 05:42:37(UTC)
Rank: Member with Substance Groups: Registered Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,184 Thanks: 926 times Was thanked: 1772 time(s) in 1186 post(s)		back to the perfect kiss mixes. the kiss of death, is another one of my all time favorite mixes, dubs. sure, its got some reverb vocals, and some female ones too (gillian?), the structure from the remix is moved around. but it also has some great breakdowns and buildups too, with the amazing finale. its a bit shorter, but still great. here's an instrumental take on that: again, there are some great guitar, and bass parts that you can hear more clearly now to. later \| \|\|\| \|\|\| \| \|\| neg ative 1

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50poundnote		#14 Posted : 29 March 2023 06:29:11(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Movement Groups: Registered Joined: 29/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 550 Thanks: 39 times Was thanked: 1066 time(s) in 551 post(s)		Originally Posted by: Mr Discography You mean Temptation. The EGG 7" is the same version on the 12" with a few bars clipped from the start and a fade out. You're correct, I think I'm mis-remembering something from Recycle (it was 14 years ago). There are at least minor differences in the vocals, having some of Barney's "whoo"-s muted.
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Mr Discography		#15 Posted : 29 March 2023 14:14:25(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Brotherhood Groups: Registered Joined: 20/05/2012(UTC) Posts: 390 Thanks: 11 times Was thanked: 749 time(s) in 391 post(s)		Originally Posted by: Andy Originally Posted by: Johnny James An even more obvious one is Temptation. True. Obviously a different recording/take which is more in the spirit of those Night Versions (although years ago, I admit to believing the myth that they were both from a single, long take). What i'm not entirely clear on is if the single mixes of "Touched by the Hand of God" (and the bonus track "Remix Version", which is merely a longer mix of "Touched by the Hand of Dub") are remixes of the soundtrack version or from a different recording. Original version of Touched is on Salvation Soundtrack. It was handed to Arthur Baker who mixed the 7", 12" and dub versions (also including the "Remix" on some CD versions of the Salvation soundtrack, which is a longer version of the dubs, as you say). Edited by user 29 March 2023 22:44:49(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified

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Mr Discography		#16 Posted : 29 March 2023 14:16:27(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Brotherhood Groups: Registered Joined: 20/05/2012(UTC) Posts: 390 Thanks: 11 times Was thanked: 749 time(s) in 391 post(s)		Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Originally Posted by: Mr Discography You mean Temptation. The EGG 7" is the same version on the 12" with a few bars clipped from the start and a fade out. You're correct, I think I'm mis-remembering something from Recycle (it was 14 years ago). There are at least minor differences in the vocals, having some of Barney's "whoo"-s muted. It's certainly the same original recording, but I've never noticed vocal ad libs being muted out - how many minutes and seconds into the 7 inch version are these bits muted out? I'd be interested to compare it to the 12". Edited by user 29 March 2023 14:17:10(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified

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50poundnote		#17 Posted : 29 March 2023 15:49:24(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Movement Groups: Registered Joined: 29/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 550 Thanks: 39 times Was thanked: 1066 time(s) in 551 post(s)		Originally Posted by: Mr Discography how many minutes and seconds into the 7 inch version are these bits muted out? I'd be interested to compare it to the 12". I have no idea. If someone has the entries for Recycle archived, it would say in there.
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Andy		#18 Posted : 29 March 2023 23:53:15(UTC)
Rank: Dead Soul Groups: Registered Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 2,218 Location: Seaside, California Thanks: 1652 times Was thanked: 3333 time(s) in 2238 post(s)		Originally Posted by: Mr Discography Originally Posted by: Andy Originally Posted by: Johnny James An even more obvious one is Temptation. True. Obviously a different recording/take which is more in the spirit of those Night Versions (although years ago, I admit to believing the myth that they were both from a single, long take). What i'm not entirely clear on is if the single mixes of "Touched by the Hand of God" (and the bonus track "Remix Version", which is merely a longer mix of "Touched by the Hand of Dub") are remixes of the soundtrack version or from a different recording. Original version of Touched is on Salvation Soundtrack. It was handed to Arthur Baker who mixed the 7", 12" and dub versions (also including the "Remix" on some CD versions of the Salvation soundtrack, which is a longer version of the dubs, as you say). The original sounds almost demo-like in its rawness compared to Baker's mixes but that may have been his focus. It also seems to me that not only is it a different bpm, but Barney's timing of of the word "Touched" in the chorus differs. I know Baker certainly could have changed these things in his mixing process but I've always wondered if that was the case. I don't know if our very own Jay-Z has any insight to share. Maybe Negative 1 can do a deep dive into the TbtHoG versions to confirm...
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Pash		#19 Posted : 01 April 2023 23:54:14(UTC)
Rank: Candidate Groups: Registered Joined: 12/05/2012(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: Great Britain Thanks: 3 times Was thanked: 13 time(s) in 7 post(s)		Originally Posted by: 50poundnote Originally Posted by: Mr Discography how many minutes and seconds into the 7 inch version are these bits muted out? I'd be interested to compare it to the 12". I have no idea. If someone has the entries for Recycle archived, it would say in there. The blog is still available in the internet archive. Loved re-reading the entries - loads of great stuff in there. https://web.archive.org/...cycle-04-temptation.html

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negative1		#20 Posted : 18 April 2023 07:17:03(UTC)
Rank: Member with Substance Groups: Registered Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,184 Thanks: 926 times Was thanked: 1772 time(s) in 1186 post(s)		so now we come to the 2nd round of edits. of course, the album version had to be edited down. which is similar to the 7 inch versions. there was the UK edits. https://www.discogs.com/...w-Order-The-Perfect-Kiss (the promo comes later) and for fun, more covers from the benelux, morris and gilbert https://www.discogs.com/...w-Order-The-Perfect-Kiss bernard hook https://www.discogs.com/...w-Order-The-Perfect-Kiss and canada, https://www.discogs.com/...w-Order-The-Perfect-Kiss and the US. https://www.discogs.com/...w-Order-The-Perfect-Kiss us promo https://www.discogs.com/...w-Order-The-Perfect-Kiss it's not a bad version, and it retains most of the song, but leaves out the final verse. the b-side is the kiss of death (edit), which unfortunately is called the instrumental on the US versions. of course there are some vocals in it. --- these recreations remove most of the vocals from both the perfect kiss edit, and kiss of death to make them more true to instrumentals. kiss of death instrumental edit later \|\| \| \| \| \|\| \| \|

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