Whilst posting on the 'Mick Middles book' thread, I started thinking about some of the of things that influenced the aesthetic of the band. Mainly the sleeve design, but other things too.

I thought it might be interesting to list some sources of things that the band/Saville 'borrowed' etc.

There's a part of me that kind of wants to collect all of these things, but that way lies madness:

'The House Of Dolls' novel (where the band's name was taken from, as well as providing the lyrics to the spoken word part of 'No Love Lost')


'History Of The 20th Century' magazine #50 (Bernard traced the cover of this for the drummer boy image on the 'An Ideal For Living' sleeve)


The book/magazine with the photo of Tsvi C. Nussbaum in Warsaw, 1943 (used on inside of the 'An Ideal For Living' sleeve. Anyone know where the is from? Possibly the same magazine as above?)


'The Cambridge Encyclopaedia of Astronomy' (1977 edition) (CP1919 'plot stack' image used on cover of 'Unknown Pleasures')


The magazine or book that Saville was reading that had the Ralph Gibson 'Hand Through a Doorway' photo used on the inner sleeve of 'Unknown Pleasures' (any idea where this came from?)


'Zoom' magazine (British edition) #10 (Mar-Apr '80) (where the Bernard Pierre Wolff photos used on the 'Closer' and 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' sleeves were used, I think! - anyone know for sure?)


'The Atrocity Exhibition' by J G Ballard (that provided the song title of the opening track on 'Closer')


The magazine/newspaper Saville was reading on Italian Futurism that he used for the 'Procession'/'Movement' sleeves.



'Strings Go West' LP by Super Sonic Strings (which, possibly provided the cover to 'Regret', unless it was nicked from somewhere else)


The magazine/newspaper Rob was reading that featured 'The New Order Of Kampuchean Liberation' headline, which gave the band their new name (no idea what newspaper this was from)


Anything else?

Edited by user 01 May 2022 07:31:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ahh yes, I took/posted a similar pic in Reply #13 of the Use Hearing Protection exhibition thread. I guess a lot of us who went to that in London or Manchester can at least say we've seen the book, even if we couldn't turn the pages on it. Same for the Closer book/magazine.



I wonder if Danny Brown fans are equally interested?
I read Ballard's pervy Crash novel and also watched the 2015 film adaptation of High Rise (good cast!). Ballard is a bit weird isn't he? Might consider this though.



Wasn't this a sort of Stock Image? Or maybe I'm getting mixed up with Chemical Brothers' Exit Planet Dust...




Supposedly The Sunday Times...



Well we did discuss films influencing song titles previously.

I have the DVD of High Rise.Think i only watched it once.Nor sure the film worked really.The one thing i recall from it is (i think) Keeley Hawes' character in one scene saying "Right, who wants to fuck me up the arse?" !!

ah ok, i'm wiv yer now but no i don't know what magazine or book they'd seen it in.



Actually, i have a vague memory of seeing that article in NME back then, yes.



I think the numbers idea came from Saville seeing them on a table at Blair Castle in Scotland.The bootleg LP you're thinking of is of the Bradford Caesars Palace , March 1984 gig.I have a folder with the recording and i thought i also had the image in the folder of the bootleg's s sleeve .But looked just now and the image isn't in there! Where has it gone? That's frustrating and i can't find the image online when i Googled it.I think it was actually a different De Chirico painting that was used however, not the Evil Genius Of A King one.

I knew I hadn't imagined it. According to Wikipedia, Saville took inspiration from 'The New and Fashionable Game of the Jew' ( )






<Edit>
Looking at the Saville sleeve, the numbers are in exactly the same order as those in the game, so he must've grabbed it from there.




Perhaps he just misremembered where he had seen the numbers.
Or, perhaps more likely, he didn't want to throw any more fuel on the "New Order are Nazis' fire, by admitting he got the numbers from an anti-semetic game.

Edited by user 01 May 2022 09:03:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hmm, this confirms that it was on painted table at Blair Castle, like you said, Fotz.

It also mentions Saville saw it pictured in a 'Country Life' magazine, so that's another source.

https://www.niagara.edu/neworder/singles/tlu.html

Hmm. That does look very familiar.
Wonder why we can’t find the bootleg online. Odd.

Looking at those two De Chirico images, I have to say, I love them. I should check out more of his work.
(TLU has always been one of my favourite sleeves, alongside Murder).

I guess the obvious one we're missing here is Henry Fantin-Latour's 'Basket Of Roses'.




Saville supposedly picked up a postcard of the painting at the National Gallery's gift shop, which gave him the inspiration.

Edited by user 01 May 2022 09:45:08(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I picked up the postcard too at a visit to the National Gallery once.I saw the original painting when it was on display at that Joy Division/ New Order exhibition in Manchester in 2017.Have a photo of it somewhere.Can't recall the name of the exhibition now, there's been so many of them.

Cheers for these.
Didn't think to check YouTube.

I guess the record sounds like you'd expect.

As regards that 808 State/MC Tunes track, I actually recognised 'The Big Country' theme when they sampled it.
I have a knack of once hearing a tune, and never forgetting it. So I knew it was aWestern theme tune, but couldn't place it a the time.

Nice to hear it in full again.

Yep it is pretty cool and well done, isn't it.Obviously the numbers down the left are the year and the top middle and then bottom middle are the month and day respectively. As for the numbers down the right , well i'm assuming it's just random numbers the creator put to fill the boxes .Unless there is some significance to them? 8,4,7,2 ??I've no idea.Cool cover either way.



Well i looked up the Der Film thing because i vaguely remember one or two articles over the years talking about the similarity of the Low Life cover's lettering echoing it.I'm sure Der Film was mentioned in somethings i read about Low Life's sleeve.I actually thought when i first clapped eyes on the Low Life sleeve the day i bought it on its release that there was something about it vaguely 1960s ish but couldn't put my finger on exactly what.Maybe it was indeed the font and i'd seen that font used in 1960s art and of course there was also the fact it is in black and white which is very 60s ish

But yeah, like you say, i'll also go with Saville taking his influences and applying them in interesting ways

Oh great spot, Debaser! Good work.Yes i have that book , the hardback edition and just checked out page 88 and yep, there it is the bit about the Der Film poster.Knew id read it somewhere.

Pedant's corner now but I'm going to have to dispute that Discogs claim that 20 May 1985 as the release date for the TPK 12". I bought the album and the TPK 12" on the same day, Low Life's release day which was 13th May 1985.I definitely bought the two on that same day.Maybe if they'd released the 12" a week or two before the album it'd have sold better? And i bought one of the Factory Benelux TPK 7" (there were 4 cover variations i think) in September 1985. There never was a UK 7" of TPK was there? Am i right? The Benelux 7" was the nearest it came , right?

The chart date of it being a new entry at no 46 19th May to 25th May 1985 tallies with the 13th May release date, like i said.In those days the UK Chart rundown was on Radio 1 on a Tuesday (it moved to Sunday teatime in October 1987 and then to Friday teatime in 2015).So the 12" was released on 13th May and then on Tuesday 21st the following week it was revealed as a new entry at no 46.If it had been released on 20th May it wouldn't have hit the chart rundown on Radio 1 until the following week on 28th May. Though it wouldn't have got a play on the Radio 1 chart rundown anyway of course because they only played or covered the top 40.


As for the UK 7" release.Well blow me down. I've had that Ivan Ivan edit as an mp3 on my laptop for years but never knew it was that edit that was used on an official UK 7" release in November 1985.I don't what i thought the Ivan Ivan edit was released on or when, i can't account for my gap in knowledge on that one.I never knew there was an official UK 7" ! How have i not known that all these years? Every day's a school day eh?


And not only was it silly to release the 7" 6 months later , it was bonkers to wait til then to release it because around the end of October/beginning of November 1985 (so around the same time as that UK 7" of TPK ) Sub Culture was released as a 7" and 12" in the UK.The releases would have got in each other's way, no? Or at least the Sub Culture release would have distracted from the TPK 7" release.That's maybe why i missed the TPK 7", i was occupied by the Sub Culture release.

Edited by user 02 May 2022 04:41:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified