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perspexorange  
#51 Posted : 16 September 2021 00:01:13(UTC)
perspexorange

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Originally Posted by: Mr. Disco Go to Quoted Post
I also like Revenge, and have everything released in CD...]


Good man!
That JILY CD single is easily one of my most played CDs.



Originally Posted by: Mr. Disco Go to Quoted Post
having met the man himself a few times through the years, also have to say he was abolutely delightful, really nice and humble every single time, even when I handed him a lot of things to sign. As they all were, to be honest... I think I can consider myself lucky since the adage "never met your heroes" doesn't seem to apply to my case Wink


I’m glad he was pleasant when you met him.

Sadly, as I’ve probably said before, I met him at that aforementioned Wolves Monaco gig and he was a right tool with me.
So much so, that it kind of put me off the band for a while. Stupid, eh?

So, the old adage of ‘never meeting your heroes’ certainly rang true with me.

However, I think this was smack bang in the middle of Hooky’s ‘cokehead / fighting Mrs Merton’s boyfriend days’, so I’m sure I didn’t see him at his best.

He seems a lot more pleasant these days.
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Mr. Disco on 16/09/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#52 Posted : 16 September 2021 00:16:24(UTC)
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No it ain't stoopid. A very small group of us waited for John Lydon after a PIL gig and he walked straight past us and into the car without a first, let alone second glance and it put me off him, especially as he's always going on about being anti the star system. Must've been a bad day cos I've read positive things about his attitude to fans.
Hooky has changed totally from the arsehole he used to be. Maybe it's just marketing cos his New Order antics have put people off and he's hardly creating tons of new material.
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Mr. Disco on 16/09/2021(UTC)
Andy  
#53 Posted : 16 September 2021 00:41:27(UTC)
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Since this is more interesting to me than the original topic, I'll chime in...

I liked the first single 7 Reasons, probably because it sounded like a rewrite of Run. And as mentioned above, we weren't expecting a Technique followup anytime soon. The b-sides set the stage for my opinion of Revenge. The instrumental Bleach Boy (an updated version of compilation track Wende) was far better than the vocal version, Bleachman that was on the LP. I also prefered the dub Love You Too over the standard version of Jesus...I Love You as Hooky's vocals are stilted and awkward.

I also prefer the instrumental Pineapple Face Calls it a Day (unlisted on the cover but track 6 on the US CD single) to all other versions. The US version also contains a totally different version of Pineapple Face's Big Day that is more of an extended remix in the LP style as opposed to the housey mix of the same name on the Factory CD single. The b-side, 14k is a good track, though. Probably better that much of the LP.

Speaking of One True Passion, the LP starts promisingly enough with Pineapple Face, and Big Bang is even better. It might be my favourite Revenge track so I was disappointed to find that the remix (renamed The Trouble with Girls) was totally redone with cheesy female backing vocals. Kiss the Chrome is musically aimless and generic and exists as merely a vehicle for Hooky's lyrics and vocals. Not to my taste. I can see why Slave was chosen to be a single but it would have benefitted from being more funky in an electro style (like Confusion '87). It just sounds stiff to me. The hip-hop mixes are embarrasing. I remember liking the Die Warsaw Alternative Mix at the time but again, it would be better as an instrumental. The Joe Smooth Extended Mix is probably the definitive version of the song for me. After Bleachman, with it's stupid lyrics comes Surf Nazi, a duet between Hooky and Dave. Dreadful and embarrasing. Things improve for Fag Hag, one of the LP's better tracks. It actually has a decent chorus and melody (though the pirate intro is lame)! Vying for favourite with Big Bang is closer It's Quiet. It shows the depth and range Revenge were capable of it only Hooky hadn't been rushing to get an LP in the shops before Bernard.

Gun World Porn was a strange release as it was heavily altered and edited, as if they couldn't decide which versions of the songs would work. The original mix of Deadbeat is a nice blend of guitary New Order and chunky Pineapple Face synths. But the trendy Gary Clail Remix was the version that was pushed. Cloud Nine shows that they were putting more thought and effort into these tracks than before. There are more elements to this song than their early works yet the arrangements sound more natural. State of Shock reminds me of Kiss the Chrome in that it's a bit dopey but is musically better. In fact, GWP overall has a better, less clunky feel musically than OTP. The closer (opener on the US release) Little Pig is one of their best and again is a mix of New Order's guitar styled songs and Pineapple Face, yet it's different and catchy enough to set it apart from the darker Deadbeat.

But I prefer Monaco...

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Mr. Disco on 16/09/2021(UTC), Michael Monkhouse on 16/09/2021(UTC)
Mr. Disco  
#54 Posted : 16 September 2021 03:02:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
Hooky has changed totally from the arsehole he used to be.

I think he admits it in one of the books?

Michael Monkhouse  
#55 Posted : 16 September 2021 03:47:31(UTC)
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Yeah, 'I Admit I Used To Be An Arsehole But I'm Not Now'.
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Mr. Disco on 16/09/2021(UTC)
Mr. Disco  
#56 Posted : 16 September 2021 05:19:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
I once saw The Light (tee hee) and one of the techs said that Hooky had become nice since he stopped doing coke.
I never liked Peter Hook, but then I saw The Light.
I never liked the Pet Shop Boys' music, but then I discovered It's Alright.
I never liked One Direction. They are total and utter fucking shit.

It's Alright isn't a PSB song, is it? (And yep, learning that in the late 90s kinda ruined my childhood)
perspexorange  
#57 Posted : 16 September 2021 06:00:05(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr. Disco Go to Quoted Post

It's Alright isn't a PSB song, is it? (And yep, learning that in the late 90s kinda ruined my childhood)


Hmm, I'm not sure I knew it was a cover version.
If I ever did know, I've since forgotten.

Side-tracking a bit (which is what this thread seems to be doing a lot of Big Grin; not that that's a problem, of course!), I never really liked 'It's Alright'.
It always seemed to be a bit 'normal'.

Thinking back, I think this is the point where my interest in the PSBs started to wane, never to be fully reignited.

Apart from 'So Hard', 'This Must Be The Place' and one or two others on 'Behaviour', I thought the LP was a bit 'meh'.

'Very' was pretty poor, IMO, with the lads just reusing the 'Go West' formula repeatedly. 'Can You Forgive Her' was the only bright spot for me.

By 'Bilingual', I really couldn't care less about the band.

It's a shame really, as their early stuff was just so DAMN good! 'Actually' is in my Top 10 LPs of all time, and 'Please' was 70% excellent.

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Mr. Disco on 16/09/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#58 Posted : 16 September 2021 07:09:15(UTC)
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It's one of those covers that's actually more famous than the original. Yeah I kinda went off the Pets then. Introspective only had two original songs and they held It's Alright back six months for a tour gimmick. Miliking it... Then there was a long break with just that dodgy, assmunching Liza Minelli thing, which was also largely oldies. Like New Order, I could recite the back catalogue up to a point, and worse still did, but then ..

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Mr. Disco on 16/09/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#59 Posted : 16 September 2021 07:54:43(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andy Go to Quoted Post
Since this is more interesting to me than the original topic, I'll chime in...

I liked the first single 7 Reasons, probably because it sounded like a rewrite of Run. And as mentioned above, we weren't expecting a Technique followup anytime soon. The b-sides set the stage for my opinion of Revenge. The instrumental Bleach Boy (an updated version of compilation track Wende) was far better than the vocal version, Bleachman that was on the LP. I also prefered the dub Love You Too over the standard version of Jesus...I Love You as Hooky's vocals are stilted and awkward.

I also prefer the instrumental Pineapple Face Calls it a Day (unlisted on the cover but track 6 on the US CD single) to all other versions. The US version also contains a totally different version of Pineapple Face's Big Day that is more of an extended remix in the LP style as opposed to the housey mix of the same name on the Factory CD single. The b-side, 14k is a good track, though. Probably better that much of the LP.

Speaking of One True Passion, the LP starts promisingly enough with Pineapple Face, and Big Bang is even better. It might be my favourite Revenge track so I was disappointed to find that the remix (renamed The Trouble with Girls) was totally redone with cheesy female backing vocals. Kiss the Chrome is musically aimless and generic and exists as merely a vehicle for Hooky's lyrics and vocals. Not to my taste. I can see why Slave was chosen to be a single but it would have benefitted from being more funky in an electro style (like Confusion '87). It just sounds stiff to me. The hip-hop mixes are embarrasing. I remember liking the Die Warsaw Alternative Mix at the time but again, it would be better as an instrumental. The Joe Smooth Extended Mix is probably the definitive version of the song for me. After Bleachman, with it's stupid lyrics comes Surf Nazi, a duet between Hooky and Dave. Dreadful and embarrasing. Things improve for Fag Hag, one of the LP's better tracks. It actually has a decent chorus and melody (though the pirate intro is lame)! Vying for favourite with Big Bang is closer It's Quiet. It shows the depth and range Revenge were capable of it only Hooky hadn't been rushing to get an LP in the shops before Bernard.

Gun World Porn was a strange release as it was heavily altered and edited, as if they couldn't decide which versions of the songs would work. The original mix of Deadbeat is a nice blend of guitary New Order and chunky Pineapple Face synths. But the trendy Gary Clail Remix was the version that was pushed. Cloud Nine shows that they were putting more thought and effort into these tracks than before. There are more elements to this song than their early works yet the arrangements sound more natural. State of Shock reminds me of Kiss the Chrome in that it's a bit dopey but is musically better. In fact, GWP overall has a better, less clunky feel musically than OTP. The closer (opener on the US release) Little Pig is one of their best and again is a mix of New Order's guitar styled songs and Pineapple Face, yet it's different and catchy enough to set it apart from the darker Deadbeat.

But I prefer Monaco...



'14K' is a great track and 'Big Bang' is probably my favourite on the actual LP.
I agree with your comments about 'Kiss The Chrome'. Not very good really, and I understand why it got relegated to the bonus disc on Version 2.0 of the LP. I'm not sure why they decided to relegate 'Fag Hag' rather than 'Surf Nazi' though. I agree that the former is a much better track.

Talking of V2.0, although I think it's a pretty great compilation, I was always annoyed with the shuffling of tracks. I can see why they re-edited / remixed some of the tracks, but shifting the running order just seemed bit superfluous to me. As someone who knows the LP pretty well, it grates on me a bit to suddenly shift from, say, 'Slave' to '14K'. I just wish they'd kept the album in the same order and added the bonus tracks on the end.

As regards the mixes, the Pineapple Face one was particularly confusing. It was difficult enough to keep track of the stuff with all the PF's Big Day/Big Day Out/Last Lunge/Revenge/Calls It A Day naming method without all the confusion with having two completely different versions of Big Day (by different remixers, IIRC).

The 'Slave' ones are just as confusing, as there's a load more edits, single mixes etc., with different naming methods used also.

As for the remixes themselves, I think they were generally pretty decent.
I also quite like that daft ansaphone rap thing on the main UK remix of 'Slave'. I'm sure I'm alone in that though.

The 'Gun World Porn' EP was great, but I always felt the UK got shafted with that release.
Although, probably a more streamlined version, I felt we missed having those extra mixes, including the non-Clail version of 'Deadbeat'. We did get the full-length 'State Of Shock' on the UK CD single though.

Talking of which, 'State Of Shock' is wonderful, IMHO.






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Mr. Disco on 16/09/2021(UTC), Andy on 16/09/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#60 Posted : 16 September 2021 07:56:01(UTC)
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The Trouble With Revenge (see what I did there?) was
1. They just chucked every sound in. I agree with Claud.Flowers that the edits were more streamlined, hence better.
2. They are total and utter fucking shit.
3. The lyrics are always reaching for some grandiose statement with topics like religion, the universe, passion etc. With 14K Hooky said he was learning to write simpler, more effective trax. I'd rate It's Quiet over JILY, which is just a mess.
Yeah, some of the remixes were better. Ron St Germaine, who worked on Jimi Hendrix, did the best PF, and there were plenty of Slave takes, but the rap version was a bit silly. I'm convinced that Pottsy is the superior.writer: nio one holds or plays a bass like Hooky, but his singing-songwriting skills are a tad dubious.
And how could we forget Freebass? I actually didn't mind the album, but the EP was crap.
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Mr. Disco on 16/09/2021(UTC)
Mr. Disco  
#61 Posted : 16 September 2021 08:22:25(UTC)
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Funny thing... I regard the EP as being vastly superior to the album. And the album being superior do the Bad Losetennant album by a country mile. Bernard's worst effort so far IMHO.

Big Bang (and the remix) remains my favourite Revenge track to the day.
Michael Monkhouse  
#62 Posted : 16 September 2021 08:35:20(UTC)
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The EP was fairly horrible and compared to Spinale Tap on these very forums. I didn't mind the LP, but it's down with Super Gayways as the one I know least. Even after my obsessive phase wore off, there've been albums I know inside out through dint of listening. Cun't really comment on these.
BL is a curate's egg and the first line was beyond groansome, but there are enuff gems to make it worthwhile. Runaway is cuntender for.Bernard's loveliest moment, alongside Some Distant Mammary and Wanking Off The Sirens' Call.
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Mr. Disco on 16/09/2021(UTC)
negative1  
#63 Posted : 17 September 2021 05:20:46(UTC)
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my anti hooky stance applies to his music. i have a ton of stuff from revenge.
but now i can't stand to listen to any of it.

i might have liked it back then, and even now the EP is ok.

but i don't see the point of listening to any of his side projects at all.

the new order stuff will always overshadow it.

later
-1
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Mr. Disco on 17/09/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#64 Posted : 17 September 2021 06:06:50(UTC)
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I once read that Kiss The Chrome was cuntsidered as the third album single, and I had a theory that Pumpkin / Microbes would've been its Bside a la Technique. I'm not sure it would've reversed Revenge's chart record of sweet Fanny Adams though.
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Mr. Disco on 17/09/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#65 Posted : 17 September 2021 07:32:37(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
I once read that Kiss The Chrome was cuntsidered as the third album single


I heard that too.
I was convinced that I'd heard there were white label promos of it, but there's nothing on Discogs. Weird.

I think 'Big Bang' would've made a far better single.

Hook has always said that he never liked releasing singles from LPs.
Seems doubtful that they would've released three.

Also, I doubt Wilson would've promoted a third, considering how Hook describes in his book that 'Revenge' almost bankrupted Factory.
I guess that the dual hits of World In Motion/Step On helped to mitigate the financially disastrous OTP.
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Mr. Disco on 18/09/2021(UTC)
Fotz  
#66 Posted : 17 September 2021 12:34:57(UTC)
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Yikes this thread has gone way , way off from the original topic. I haven’t a clue what most of these Revenge tracks and remixes you’re all talking about are. I never heard the Gun World Porn album, wasn’t the release a bit weird or non existent in the UK at one time or something? I’ve no idea and not interested in finding out either.

I lost track of the Pet Shop Boys for a long period of time after the Very album in 1993( that album does have some great songs IMO like Young Offennder, Yesterday When I Was Mad and the fantastic Beatmasters remix for the single release of I Wouldn’t Normally Do This Kind Of Thing ). But I never listened to the albums Bilingual (1996),Nightlife (1999) and Release( 2002) until the mid to late 2000s. Each of those albums does have one or two absolutely cracking songs though like Se a Vida E( That’s The Way Life Is) , Single Bilingual and Red Letter Day from Bilingual, I Don’t Know What You Want But I Can’t Give It Anymore and You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You’re Drunk from Nightlife and Home And Dry and London from Release.

The Fundamental album from 2006 has some great songs if you give the album time but maybe that time has long past. Top songs on that one for me are I Made My Excuses And Left, Numb, Luna Park, Cassanova In Hell and Indefinite Leave To Remain.

The Yes album from 2009 has some great songs like King Of Rome and The Way It Used To Be but like their late 90s /early 2000s albums and
Elysium (2012), Electric (2013) and Super (2016) they’re rare diamonds amongst the other album tracks. Their most recent album Hotspot (2019 I think ?) was their worst by far for me, absolutely no songs I liked in any shape or form.

Love Is A Bourgeois Construct from the Electric album is fabulous late period PSB. Breathing Space, Memory Of The Future, Leaving and Winner are the stand outs for me from Elysium. On Super I’d say Twenty Something the stand out song.

Then of course there are the countless remix albums and live stuff. The Concrete live album is really good.

I think I only became aware It’s Alright is a cover version sometime relatively recently, maybe in the last 10 years.

Edited by user 17 September 2021 13:33:46(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Mr. Disco on 18/09/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#67 Posted : 17 September 2021 23:01:56(UTC)
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The Pets are one of those bands I just kinda lost interest in. I had the same thing with New Order circa 1996. It was a combination of getting too old for teenage obsessions, difficulty tracking down info and releases, and London's policy of accompanying every new album with six billion rerererereleases, especially when the newbies were as bland as The Other Spew or Erase The Pressure.
I'm surprised a fan hasn't even heard Gun World Porn, given that we're hardly talking Beatle productivity. Macca alone has been involved in around 1500 tracks so I'll forgive myself for not knowing them all inside out. Hooky's been retreading the same shit for 15 years and New Order have managed a grand total of one song in the last six years. I counted. Three times.
All those total and utter pricks who think Tony Wilson was a genius should be forced to listen to OTP on replay in a cold, dark room. What a dick head.

Edited by user 17 September 2021 23:43:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Mr. Disco on 18/09/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#68 Posted : 17 September 2021 23:51:13(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: negative1 Go to Quoted Post

the new order stuff will always overshadow it.

later
-1


Yeah but you can still enjoy it. Macca's never cum close to late Beatles, but I still listen to his stuff.
I hereby promise to stop clogging these forums up with references to other bands. It's what I want, what I really really want to stop right now, thank you very much. Too much of one thing is bad enough. Makes me wanna holler. Let love lead the way, say you will be there. Who do you think you are?
Goodbye, my friend.
perspexorange  
#69 Posted : 18 September 2021 02:04:09(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Yikes this thread has gone way , way off from the original topic.


It has a bit, but it’s all good.
It’s nice to have a thread get a fair few responses to it,


Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
I haven’t a clue what most of these Revenge tracks and remixes you’re all talking about are. I never heard the Gun World Porn album, wasn’t the release a bit weird or non existent in the UK at one time or something? I’ve no idea and not interested in finding out either.


The Gun World Porn EP did get a full UK release, such as these were on Factory.

As I mentioned earlier, the UK release only had four tracks, one for each song. The version of ‘Deadbeat’ was a remix too.
The US release had seven tracks, with both the original and remix of ‘Deadbeat’, two bonus remixes of ‘State Of Shock’ and the version of ‘Little Pig’ was a different mix to the UK.

So it did kind of feel like our version was nerfed a bit.

You should give GWP a listen, Fotz.
Most people I’ve spoken to seem to find it the best stuff the band did.
It’s pretty good.

Edited by user 18 September 2021 02:10:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Mr. Disco on 18/09/2021(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#70 Posted : 18 September 2021 03:34:26(UTC)
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Yeah, even better than Bleachman. How do they do it? What's their secret? I guess we'll never know.
As I've said and then again, I'm surprised Fotz hasn't even tried It, out of curiosity. It's fine but more Monaco than Revenge, Who overlapped some tracks.
I didn't hear the original Deadbeat till 1998 and assumed the Clail mix was the 'proper' One.I was introduced to Regret through a remix too and thought Fire Island was theirs, partly cos it was previewed on Radio 1 and partly cos I was used to Factory starting with the full version on 12" with an edited or no 7", as opposed to London taking standard length and handing it over to external DJs.
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Mr. Disco on 18/09/2021(UTC)
Mr. Disco  
#71 Posted : 18 September 2021 08:51:13(UTC)
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Just remembered I used to have the US 12" of State of Shock, just the disc, no sleeve (cant remember what happened). Got rid of it when I've purchased the CD, assuming it would feature all versions. Later on, I hoped the LTM release of One True Passion V2.0 would bring back the extended mix of Little Pig, but it remains exclusive to the 12" I guess?

https://www.discogs.com/...ittle-Pig/release/884283
perspexorange  
#72 Posted : 18 September 2021 09:12:39(UTC)
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Following your link, it appears that the Extended Mix of 'Little Pig' is also on this promo:

https://www.discogs.com/release/4958630


I'd forgotten all about this mix. I do have it as mp3, but Heaven knows where / when I acquired it.
Just listening to it now. Not bad at all.
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Mr. Disco on 18/09/2021(UTC)
Mr. Disco  
#73 Posted : 18 September 2021 09:31:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Following your link, it appears that the Extended Mix of 'Little Pig' is also on this promo:

https://www.discogs.com/release/4958630

Nice find!

Michael Monkhouse  
#74 Posted : 24 September 2021 03:45:01(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
Three cassettes I picked up at a record fair in 1992. The most interesting was the first cos it had 586 Pts One and Two, Haystack, Homage and the Hassie flexidisc. There's a tracklisting here but it doesn't specify which versions https://www.discogs.com/...Rarities/release/7935833 . The funny part is that I thought Haystack had a woman on vocals so it was an old Inadequates track! I was right about the flexi tracks, and assumed 586 was an early version (half-right) and Homage an old demo (right again). Record Mirror and An Ideal For Living proved invaluable back then.
The best part about the second one was Let's Go / Waiting for so long, which was also the best part of the third one! Milking it, really, but I'm sure there were two megamixes on there.


Late followup (Too Late?) but the other interesting part on the second One was a unique Sister Ray. When I read the RM article, I assumed it was the Like A Girl... version but it ain't. It the one Bernard introduces as an old JD song and invites Steve to give a beat - 'Beautiful, beautiful...' The bass is way too high as usual and at the end, Hooky shows off for two minutes, presumably after the others have fucked off. No idea where it's from - or the Oz's Live and Dangerous 'Mix' on that 'The Remix' boot I mentioned above.

Edited by user 24 September 2021 03:47:39(UTC)  | Reason: I do what I like

perspexorange  
#75 Posted : 24 September 2021 09:36:37(UTC)
perspexorange

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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post

Late followup (Too Late?) but the other interesting part on the second One was a unique Sister Ray. When I read the RM article, I assumed it was the Like A Girl... version but it ain't. It the one Bernard introduces as an old JD song and invites Steve to give a beat - 'Beautiful, beautiful...' The bass is way too high as usual and at the end, Hooky shows off for two minutes, presumably after the others have fucked off. No idea where it's from


Although I don't have the bootleg you mentioned, I believe 'Sister Ray' is from Malvern Winter Gardens, 03/10/86.

I have that gig on my hard-drive, and it matches up with what you've said above.

Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post

- or the Oz's Live and Dangerous 'Mix' on that 'The Remix' boot I mentioned above.


Hmmm. Not sure about this one.
If I can find the CD, I'll try and match it what I have Should be easy. The only problem might be locating the CD.
thanks 1 user thanked perspexorange for this useful post.
Michael Monkhouse on 25/09/2021(UTC)
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