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SeasoningPacket  
#1 Posted : 20 August 2020 03:40:13(UTC)
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#1 , did they ever have outtakes/extended version of this? Read something somewhere regarding that on Facebook a few years ago, but dont remember if it was true or not.
#2, who filmed it?
#3, what on earth is the story behind Gillian sharing a bath with a naked tony? Who's idea was that? Shocked steve didnt punch his lights out! Lol
#4, what's your take on tony on it?
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ROCKET MICK on 20/08/2020(UTC)
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perspexorange  
#2 Posted : 20 August 2020 04:28:14(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: SeasoningPacket Go to Quoted Post
#1 , did they ever have outtakes/extended version of this? Read something somewhere regarding that on Facebook a few years ago, but dont remember if it was true or not.
#2, who filmed it?
#3, what on earth is the story behind Gillian sharing a bath with a naked tony? Who's idea was that? Shocked steve didnt punch his lights out! Lol
#4, what's your take on tony on it?


Well, I can only answer as a fan, as I'm not connected with the documentary or the band, but I'll have a crack at answering:

1) It's highly likely that there were outtakes. However, I've never seen them or even heard of them in the 33+ years I've been a fan (and I'm pretty obsessive, especially when it comes to video material). There's always a possibility that, as this documentary is being included on the forthcoming Power, Corruption & Lies boxset, there may be some extended scenes. Especially if it was sourced from the band's archives. However, I think it's probably likely that this was taken directly from the Channel 4 archives and, therefore, more likely to just be the programme, as it was broadcast.

'Johnny James' may be able to provide further details on the programme itself and whether the version on the box set is extended in any way.

2) Well, if you're referring to the cameraman, according to the credits this was Mike Wilkie, but I have no idea who this is (he probably worked for Channel 4).
If you're referring to who put this project together, that's a bit more complicated. The 'Play At Home' series on Channel 4 was a short-lived project where Channel 4 asked bands to put together a one-off TV show, of their choosing. I guess that each band were given a short briefing about format / length etc. But, what they decided to cover in the documentary was completely up to them. I know Siouxsie & The Banshees did one (which was, IIRC, pretty good). I seem to think XTC did one also, plus some more mainstream bands (Level 42 etc.). Here's a list of episodes, if you're interested:

https://www.imdb.com/tit.../episodes?ref_=tt_ov_epl

The band and Rob Gretton were involved in putting the programme together and they decided to make a documentary on Factory Records.
So it's doubly interesting for New Order fans as it's a) made by the band and b) about a company very closely associated with the band.

I'm guessing that Tony Wilson and Alan Erasmus were happy for the band to do this and probably contributed a few ideas too.

3) As regards the absolutely wonderful scene with the lovely Ms Gilbert and Tony in the bath, who knows who's wacky idea it was? If I had to guess, it was Rob's. But this sort of thing is probably lost in the mists of time.
What the band's thinking behind including a scene like this is also unclear, but maybe they felt that it was a) a bit daft and therefore perfect for the bonkers reputation of Factory and b) it disarmed Tony and showed him in a more comical light (he always had the reputation of being a bit arrogant).

Interestingly, I have a copy of an article in 'City Life' magazine (a Manchester magazine) that mentions that Tony was furious about this scene and tried to censor it. This seems a little implausible, given that he agreed to doing the scene in the first place. I guess, maybe, he tried to censor the overhead 'cock shot' Big Grin .
To be fair, the article is factually incorrect in a few places and the author seemed to have an axe to grind with Tony.

Man, though. I bloody love this scene. When I first got into the band, I fell in love with Factory Records, largely because of this documentary. How can you not love a record label that would let their Chief Executive sit naked in a bath with a young lady, playing with wind-up toys. All whilst talking about Trotsky and praxis?

Superb stuff!

4) Tony comes off as equal parts clever, charming, arrogant and likeable. As I said above, this was pretty much my first impression of Tony and I thought he was wonderful. I still think that.

I met him once. At Albert Square in Manchester, at New Order's one-off/one track performance at the 'hand-over' ceremony for the Commonwealth Games (between Kuala Lumpur and Manchester in 1998).
They say 'never meet your heroes', but I'm glad I did in this case.
He was charming and wonderful and friendly and just altogether magnificent. I stood there quietly in awe and probably just said three or four words.

I genuinely shed a tear when he passed. A great loss. To both Manchester and British music.
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SeasoningPacket on 20/08/2020(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 23/08/2020(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#3 Posted : 20 August 2020 07:40:19(UTC)
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The bath scene is probably a rip off from McLaren in The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle. Incidentally, if you'd like to watch that film, don't. It's appalling and makes a mockery out of everything the Pistols stood for: the idea that the first and last band to mean it, man, were an elborate McLaren hoax. He can go fuck himself.
So Gillian, what is praxis?
Um, don't know! Ha ha ha ha!

Edited by user 20 August 2020 07:42:50(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 20/08/2020(UTC), SeasoningPacket on 20/08/2020(UTC), Coops on 21/08/2020(UTC)
Johnny James  
#4 Posted : 20 August 2020 12:54:29(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SeasoningPacket Go to Quoted Post
#1 , did they ever have outtakes/extended version of this? Read something somewhere regarding that on Facebook a few years ago, but dont remember if it was true or not.
#2, who filmed it?
#3, what on earth is the story behind Gillian sharing a bath with a naked tony? Who's idea was that? Shocked steve didnt punch his lights out! Lol
#4, what's your take on tony on it?


Well, I can only answer as a fan, as I'm not connected with the documentary or the band, but I'll have a crack at answering:

1) It's highly likely that there were outtakes. However, I've never seen them or even heard of them in the 33+ years I've been a fan (and I'm pretty obsessive, especially when it comes to video material). There's always a possibility that, as this documentary is being included on the forthcoming Power, Corruption & Lies boxset, there may be some extended scenes. Especially if it was sourced from the band's archives. However, I think it's probably likely that this was taken directly from the Channel 4 archives and, therefore, more likely to just be the programme, as it was broadcast.

'Johnny James' may be able to provide further details on the programme itself and whether the version on the box set is extended in any way.

2) Well, if you're referring to the cameraman, according to the credits this was Mike Wilkie, but I have no idea who this is (he probably worked for Channel 4).
If you're referring to who put this project together, that's a bit more complicated. The 'Play At Home' series on Channel 4 was a short-lived project where Channel 4 asked bands to put together a one-off TV show, of their choosing. I guess that each band were given a short briefing about format / length etc. But, what they decided to cover in the documentary was completely up to them. I know Siouxsie & The Banshees did one (which was, IIRC, pretty good). I seem to think XTC did one also, plus some more mainstream bands (Level 42 etc.). Here's a list of episodes, if you're interested:

https://www.imdb.com/tit.../episodes?ref_=tt_ov_epl

The band and Rob Gretton were involved in putting the programme together and they decided to make a documentary on Factory Records.
So it's doubly interesting for New Order fans as it's a) made by the band and b) about a company very closely associated with the band.

I'm guessing that Tony Wilson and Alan Erasmus were happy for the band to do this and probably contributed a few ideas too.

3) As regards the absolutely wonderful scene with the lovely Ms Gilbert and Tony in the bath, who knows who's wacky idea it was? If I had to guess, it was Rob's. But this sort of thing is probably lost in the mists of time.
What the band's thinking behind including a scene like this is also unclear, but maybe they felt that it was a) a bit daft and therefore perfect for the bonkers reputation of Factory and b) it disarmed Tony and showed him in a more comical light (he always had the reputation of being a bit arrogant).

Interestingly, I have a copy of an article in 'City Life' magazine (a Manchester magazine) that mentions that Tony was furious about this scene and tried to censor it. This seems a little implausible, given that he agreed to doing the scene in the first place. I guess, maybe, he tried to censor the overhead 'cock shot' Big Grin .
To be fair, the article is factually incorrect in a few places and the author seemed to have an axe to grind with Tony.

Man, though. I bloody love this scene. When I first got into the band, I fell in love with Factory Records, largely because of this documentary. How can you not love a record label that would let their Chief Executive sit naked in a bath with a young lady, playing with wind-up toys. All whilst talking about Trotsky and praxis?

Superb stuff!

4) Tony comes off as equal parts clever, charming, arrogant and likeable. As I said above, this was pretty much my first impression of Tony and I thought he was wonderful. I still think that.

I met him once. At Albert Square in Manchester, at New Order's one-off/one track performance at the 'hand-over' ceremony for the Commonwealth Games (between Kuala Lumpur and Manchester in 1998).
They say 'never meet your heroes', but I'm glad I did in this case.
He was charming and wonderful and friendly and just altogether magnificent. I stood there quietly in awe and probably just said three or four words.

I genuinely shed a tear when he passed. A great loss. To both Manchester and British music.



No outtakes on the DVD except for the gig, just the original program as broadcast. If there were any they'e long lost. For the gig we were lucky to have it on a VHS (unfortunately with a timecode). We had no luck with finding a better master for it.


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ROCKET MICK on 21/08/2020(UTC), Andy on 21/08/2020(UTC)
perspexorange  
#5 Posted : 20 August 2020 13:28:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post

No outtakes on the DVD except for the gig, just the original program as broadcast. If there were any they'e long lost. For the gig we were lucky to have it on a VHS (unfortunately with a timecode). We had no luck with finding a better master for it.




Many thanks for this. I can't wait to see that gig.

Do you know if all of New Order's appearances at The Haçienda were taped?
I always thought IKON filmed them all.
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ROCKET MICK on 21/08/2020(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#6 Posted : 20 August 2020 22:00:46(UTC)
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Yeah, I can't imagine Tony getting his knob out and then getting Cold Feet (tee hee). He was such a deluded, self-obsessed egomaniac he probably thought the world WANTED to see his dick. My personal favourite is when there were copyright problems over the PCL cover and he spouted, 'Look. the people of England want that picture.' I don't think most of us gave a fuck either way. Still, it was kind of cool to have a nude guy when the media was constantly making a mockery out of women's bodies.
Spoiler alert: There is a scene in the Great Rock n Roll Swindle where Stephen Jones doesn't get his cock out. You have been warned.
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ROCKET MICK on 21/08/2020(UTC)
Johnny James  
#7 Posted : 20 August 2020 22:15:11(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post

No outtakes on the DVD except for the gig, just the original program as broadcast. If there were any they'e long lost. For the gig we were lucky to have it on a VHS (unfortunately with a timecode). We had no luck with finding a better master for it.




Many thanks for this. I can't wait to see that gig.

Do you know if all of New Order's appearances at The Haçienda were taped?
I always thought IKON filmed them all.


It's a bit patchy after the first three.
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ROCKET MICK on 21/08/2020(UTC)
perspexorange  
#8 Posted : 20 August 2020 23:20:03(UTC)
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Thanks.

One I’d love to see is the complete gig from December 1985 (i.e. the one that was partly broadcast on The Old Grey Whistle Test).
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ROCKET MICK on 21/08/2020(UTC)
Johnny James  
#9 Posted : 20 August 2020 23:44:12(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Thanks.

One I’d love to see is the complete gig from December 1985 (i.e. the one that was partly broadcast on The Old Grey Whistle Test).


Unfortunately the BBC stopped filmed part way through Face Up.

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ROCKET MICK on 21/08/2020(UTC)
perspexorange  
#10 Posted : 21 August 2020 01:37:34(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Thanks.

One I’d love to see is the complete gig from December 1985 (i.e. the one that was partly broadcast on The Old Grey Whistle Test).


Unfortunately the BBC stopped filmed part way through Face Up.




Nooooooooo! Frown

Damn, Auntie Beeb! I so wanted to see the rest of that gig. New Order were on fire that night.
That performance of Sunrise is one of their very best.

Still, thanks for the info and please consider including what is available on the Low Life box set.
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ROCKET MICK on 21/08/2020(UTC)
perspexorange  
#11 Posted : 09 September 2020 01:13:12(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post



No outtakes on the DVD except for the gig, just the original program as broadcast. If there were any they'e long lost. For the gig we were lucky to have it on a VHS (unfortunately with a timecode). We had no luck with finding a better master for it.




Last night on the weekly Hooky/Jack chat, Hooky mentions that he has found some outtakes from this documentary and these have been submitted to the others for approval.
He mentions that, if improved, they'll be on the PC&L box set. These outtakes apparently include quite a bit of footage of Tony and Rob.

It sounds as if they've only just been found so, to me, it seems unlikely that they'll be in time for inclusion.

Any ideas, Johnny, as to whether they'll likely make it?
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ROCKET MICK on 09/09/2020(UTC)
Johnny James  
#12 Posted : 09 September 2020 02:03:40(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post



No outtakes on the DVD except for the gig, just the original program as broadcast. If there were any they'e long lost. For the gig we were lucky to have it on a VHS (unfortunately with a timecode). We had no luck with finding a better master for it.




Last night on the weekly Hooky/Jack chat, Hooky mentions that he has found some outtakes from this documentary and these have been submitted to the others for approval.
He mentions that, if improved, they'll be on the PC&L box set. These outtakes apparently include quite a bit of footage of Tony and Rob.

It sounds as if they've only just been found so, to me, it seems unlikely that they'll be in time for inclusion.

Any ideas, Johnny, as to whether they'll likely make it?


I really don't know exactly what he has, it's far too late for the box, unless he wants to scrap the whole release until next year to change an already manufactured DVD?
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ROCKET MICK on 09/09/2020(UTC)
perspexorange  
#13 Posted : 09 September 2020 02:22:29(UTC)
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Thanks Johnny.

I thought it seemed very, very unlikely at this late stage, but thought I'd check with you, in case there was a last minute amendment.

What's odd about this is that, when he first mentioned it, he states it almost as fact that the outtakes would appear on the DVD. On his chat a few weeks ago, he held up copies of the DVDs that he was going to approve, which presumably didn't have the outtakes on them. You'd think he would therefore know the clips wouldn't be making it.

He then mentioned later that the band might veto these as, according to him if he submits stuff, "it doesn't usually get used".
(If he's submitting things in the 11th hour, I can probably guess why these are being omitted and likely has little to do with personal conflicts).

If you want to see the clip, it's here at the 8m45s mark:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CE4h0zkJTMg/

Edited by user 09 September 2020 02:44:16(UTC)  | Reason: To make my point clearer...

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ROCKET MICK on 09/09/2020(UTC)
Fotz  
#14 Posted : 09 September 2020 10:14:28(UTC)
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Always took the idea of having Wilson in the bath was typical wacky Factory humour.It didn't really surprise me at all.Though it was bloody awful to witness on tv!

Edited by user 09 September 2020 10:15:15(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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ROCKET MICK on 09/09/2020(UTC)
SeasoningPacket  
#15 Posted : 10 September 2020 07:02:50(UTC)
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would be so cool to see extras!
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ROCKET MICK on 10/09/2020(UTC)
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