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tarbox23		#1 Posted : 15 February 2020 20:17:30(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Republic Groups: Registered Joined: 24/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 119 Location: mystic, ct Thanks: 58 times Was thanked: 156 time(s) in 120 post(s)		Revenge seems obsessed.
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perspexorange		#2 Posted : 16 February 2020 04:12:04(UTC)
Rank: Dead Soul Groups: Registered Joined: 20/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,389 Location: Salop Thanks: 506 times Was thanked: 3865 time(s) in 2388 post(s)		This is the guy, apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega "Noriega used the moniker "El Man" to refer to himself, but he was also known by the nickname "Pineapple Face", a name which he detested, and it would later be the subject of a lawsuit." Basically, his face was pock-marked and, because of this, resembled a pineapple. Hook has confirmed that that's where he got the name from, but has stated that the song isn't about the Panamanian. I guess he just liked the name. Edited by user 16 February 2020 04:13:17(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified

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50poundnote		#3 Posted : 16 February 2020 08:46:07(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Movement Groups: Registered Joined: 29/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 553 Thanks: 39 times Was thanked: 1081 time(s) in 554 post(s)		In the grand tradition of New Order and side projects tacking random titles onto songs. Not a single song on Technique has the song title in the lyrics. Blue Monday? Bizarre Love Triangle? True Faith? I’m convinced it’s one of the things that kept them from greater visibility in the US.
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perspexorange		#4 Posted : 16 February 2020 09:30:09(UTC)
Rank: Dead Soul Groups: Registered Joined: 20/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,389 Location: Salop Thanks: 506 times Was thanked: 3865 time(s) in 2388 post(s)		Yep. I think that was part of the appeal of the band for me. I know, when I first got into them around 'True Faith', I was kind of fascinated by that song. The obscure lyrics and the fact that the title didn't appear in the song made that track, and the band themselves, seem incredibly mysterious. 'Blue Monday' is another good example of a song where the strange lyrics / lack of song title in the lyrics make the band seem very enigmatic. Obviously the band's reluctance to do interviews or appear in videos, along with the strange beauty of Saville's sleeves, all added to the mystery. New Order were not only appealing musically, they must be, hands-down, the most interesting band ever: The seeming 'non-promotion' of themselves and their products; The history of their formation (4 non-musical 'oiks' going to a Sex Pistols gig and forming a band that changed popular music); The whole 'Ian' thing; The fact that they decided, rather than carry on playing JD songs and building on their legacy, to completely restart again from scratch; The progression of their musical style from post-punk to dance floor fillers; The whole connection to 'Factory' and that company's 'art-project' sensibilities; Building a nightclub that would significantly impact dance-music. I have other favourite bands for which I like the music almost as much as JD/NO, but it's the other facets of the band that make them so appealing. There really is no other band that is anywhere near as interesting.

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50poundnote		#5 Posted : 16 February 2020 12:42:23(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Movement Groups: Registered Joined: 29/04/2012(UTC) Posts: 553 Thanks: 39 times Was thanked: 1081 time(s) in 554 post(s)		Yep! Also, I can’t think of another band who has actually been two separate, profoundly influential bands during their career.
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Fotz		#6 Posted : 16 February 2020 12:58:28(UTC)
Rank: Dead Soul Groups: Registered Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC) Posts: 2,659 Location: Down on the farm Thanks: 680 times Was thanked: 3744 time(s) in 2660 post(s)		Originally Posted by: perspexorange I have other favourite bands for which I like the music almost as much as JD/NO, but it's the other facets of the band that make them so appealing. There really is no other band that is anywhere near as interesting. Yeah.New Order were always the most interesting, the coolest, inspired the most devotion and obsession.Well maybe not these days but certainly back in the 80s.My favourite albums ever overall actually weren't any of New Order's albums.I mean , albums like Power, Corruption & Lies and Low-life are great but i don't rate every song on each of those albums so they fall just short of being great albums.They have fantastic songs like Age Of Conent, Your Silent Face and Leave Me Alone on P,C & L and Love Vigilantes, TPK, This Time Of Night, Sunrise and Sub Culture on Low Life but also a few lesser ones like maybe Ultraviolence and Ecstasy. My favourite albums ever are ones like House Of Love's Butterfly/Fontana or Radiohead's Ok Computer because every song from start to finish on those albums i love and think are just incredible, great albums from start to finish.But the one band that inspired obsession and devotion like no other back in the 80s was New Order because of all the other stuff associated with them.They had great songs, though not all but i just took to the personalities of Bernard, Steve, Hooky (well of course not now since he turned into a knob 'ead but back then i thought he was great) and Gillian.And then of course people like Tony Wilson and Rob Gretton.They and Barney and Hooky were just , well, at the age of 16/17 in the mid 80s i guess i'd go as far as saying they were my heroes back then. I guess what i'm saying is with New Order it wasn't just about the music, there was so much else.So much more than any other band.

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Michael Monkhouse		#7 Posted : 17 February 2020 05:02:32(UTC)
Rank: Guilty Partner Groups: Registered Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,998 Location: Rome Thanks: 61 times Was thanked: 2410 time(s) in 2004 post(s)		Originally Posted by: perspexorange band ever: The seeming 'non-promotion' of themselves and their products; The history of their formation (4 non-musical 'oiks' going to a Sex Pistols gig and forming a band that changed popular music); The whole 'Ian' thing; The fact that they decided, rather than carry on playing JD songs and building on their legacy, to completely restart again from scratch; The progression of their musical style from post-punk to dance floor fillers; The whole connection to 'Factory' and that company's 'art-project' sensibilities; Building a nightclub that would significantly impact dance-music. It sounds uberAWESOME and uberNO, but none of this has applied for three-quarters of their career. I saw a big sign, 'New Order - Sold Out'. I thought, Yes, in 1993.

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Michael Monkhouse		#8 Posted : 17 February 2020 05:11:59(UTC)
Rank: Guilty Partner Groups: Registered Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,998 Location: Rome Thanks: 61 times Was thanked: 2410 time(s) in 2004 post(s)		Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse It sounds uberAWESOME and uberNO, but none of this has applied for three-quarters of their career. I saw a big sign, 'New Order - Sold Out'. I thought, Yes, in 1993. Oh ffs Bob's bastard son, why does yer always bein so NEGATIVES and - and CYNICFULNESS eh I mean HELLO does yer even fucking LIKIN newn order, always fuckiong moaning and groaning and gripin and whinin and whinging, well fuck you you fucking fucker. (I do my own feedback now, save you lot the time.)

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perspexorange		#9 Posted : 17 February 2020 10:03:30(UTC)
Rank: Dead Soul Groups: Registered Joined: 20/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,389 Location: Salop Thanks: 506 times Was thanked: 3865 time(s) in 2388 post(s)		Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse It sounds uberAWESOME and uberNO, but none of this has applied for three-quarters of their career. Yes, you're correct. They haven't been massively influential throughout their 43 year career... But, just being influential through a decade or so is enough. How many artists can you say have been massively influential throughout a career lasting as long as that? If you can list more than a handful, I might concede you have a point. McCartney - Even if you consider all Beatles LPs to be highly influential, there's only a 7 year period between the first LP and the last. I don't think anything post-Beatles (certainly Macca's stuff) could be considered cutting edge. Page / Plant - again, a ten year period for their Zepp stuff and the later LPs aren't really held in such high esteem. Kraftwerk - Really, it's only the stuff between '74 and '81 that's any good. I could go on... I also know that you don't think that the band were massively influential, but I think you're wrong. And I think most on this board would agree with me. I'm not trying to say that they had as much impact on music as The Beatles, for instance. But, in their own right, they have influenced many bands, whether directly or indirectly. Most British indie bands of the 80s and 90s would admit to being influenced by either JD or NO. The same could be said for most dance actss. And these artists will have, in turn, influenced other later bands. If the band had released just one LP that could be classed as 'seminal', that'd be impressive. No - they released four (UP, Closer, PC&L, Technique, and 'Low Life' ain't too shabby either). Their status as 'legends of music' is not only justified, it's undeniable. Gonna leave it at that. I'm starting to sound a little bit gushing..

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Michael Monkhouse		#10 Posted : 19 February 2020 07:56:48(UTC)
Rank: Guilty Partner Groups: Registered Joined: 03/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,998 Location: Rome Thanks: 61 times Was thanked: 2410 time(s) in 2004 post(s)		Originally Posted by: perspexorange McCartney - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Lydon is the closest.

1 user thanked Michael Monkhouse for this useful post.		ROCKET MICK on 22/02/2020(UTC)
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Linus Solanki		#11 Posted : 19 February 2020 09:38:18(UTC)
Rank: Member of the Movement Groups: Registered Joined: 10/05/2012(UTC) Posts: 629 Location: NYC Thanks: 59 times Was thanked: 1027 time(s) in 649 post(s)		You are right, that have made amazing music, so many good songs that it is shocking, song after song Originally Posted by: perspexorange Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse It sounds uberAWESOME and uberNO, but none of this has applied for three-quarters of their career. Yes, you're correct. They haven't been massively influential throughout their 43 year career... But, just being influential through a decade or so is enough. How many artists can you say have been massively influential throughout a career lasting as long as that? If you can list more than a handful, I might concede you have a point. McCartney - Even if you consider all Beatles LPs to be highly influential, there's only a 7 year period between the first LP and the last. I don't think anything post-Beatles (certainly Macca's stuff) could be considered cutting edge. Page / Plant - again, a ten year period for their Zepp stuff and the later LPs aren't really held in such high esteem. Kraftwerk - Really, it's only the stuff between '74 and '81 that's any good. I could go on... I also know that you don't think that the band were massively influential, but I think you're wrong. And I think most on this board would agree with me. I'm not trying to say that they had as much impact on music as The Beatles, for instance. But, in their own right, they have influenced many bands, whether directly or indirectly. Most British indie bands of the 80s and 90s would admit to being influenced by either JD or NO. The same could be said for most dance actss. And these artists will have, in turn, influenced other later bands. If the band had released just one LP that could be classed as 'seminal', that'd be impressive. No - they released four (UP, Closer, PC&L, Technique, and 'Low Life' ain't too shabby either). Their status as 'legends of music' is not only justified, it's undeniable. Gonna leave it at that. I'm starting to sound a little bit gushing..
		I promise to make you so alive that the fall of dust on furniture will deafen you. Nina Cassian

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