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perspexorange  
#1 Posted : 15 March 2019 11:31:32(UTC)
perspexorange

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Just in case anyone was interested, watch this video from about 2:44 until about 3:38:




And for those of you who like boobs (Michael, this is specifically for you), whizz ahead until 8:11. There's nothing New Order related at 8:11, but knock yourself out.

Edited by user 16 March 2019 02:59:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Fotzepolitic on 15/03/2019(UTC), Rocket Mick on 15/03/2019(UTC), Rorschach on 16/03/2019(UTC), blunt laser on 18/03/2019(UTC)
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Fotzepolitic  
#2 Posted : 15 March 2019 13:05:12(UTC)
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Well well well, so that’s where that those bits come from.. great find, perspexorange.

“Kieth Taylor is going to hound youoooo!” So that’s what the sample is saying.I get it now. Oh and the machine gun sound and the “we’re going to get you, we’re going to get you ..” bit.

Great find.

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Rocket Mick on 16/03/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#3 Posted : 15 March 2019 14:28:23(UTC)
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Cheers Fotzepolitic.

I had no idea where they came from and then until yesterday, when I came across a nifty magazine article. In it, fans asked Barney, Steve and Hooky various questions. One of them involves 'Don't Do It' and Steve let slip it was from that TV programme.

Here's the various pages, just in case you're interested (missing the first page of questions, sadly):

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage


I've also decided to make a short video with the clip in it, plus the reversed 'The Exorcist' sample at the end, and uploaded it to my (very sparse) YouTube Channel:


Edited by user 15 March 2019 14:43:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Fotzepolitic  
#4 Posted : 15 March 2019 16:30:27(UTC)
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^ Burn magazine, god I vaguely remember that being around for a seemingly very short time back in late 90s/early 2000s. The New Order article too small to read on phone but will try on laptop over the weekend.

Superb work putting together that YouTube upload.The reverse of the Excorcist sample is great.
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Rocket Mick on 16/03/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#5 Posted : 16 March 2019 01:25:39(UTC)
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Thanks.
I’m completely rubbish at using software to do things like that, so even I’m surprised that it turned it out relatively ok.
First time I’ve ever used iMovie. I think I could’ve made it much more flashy, but struggled to work out even the most basic of features.

I’d like to do something similar for ‘Murder’. However, I’m not sure where the samples feature in either movie.

Although I quite like 2001, I’d really need to be in the mood to watch it.

And I’m not sure I could sit through 2h36m of ‘Caligula’. That might take some doing. Even NO didn’t sit down to watch it (I think it was playing in the background in the recreation room at Britannia Row when they recorded PC&L).

Who knows though? If the mood takes me.
Of course though, if anyone knows the exact points in the movies the samples appear in, that might save me my time, not to mention my sanity (in the case of Caligula).
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Fotzepolitic  
#6 Posted : 16 March 2019 02:35:08(UTC)
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Managed to read the Burn magazine thing on my laptop, thanks for posting it.

The samples from 2001:A Space Odyssey are towards the end of the film, maybe in the last half hour, the scenes where Hal is starting to malfunction/shut down when Bowman starts to disconnect the computer's circuits.

Watched Caligula some years back, i remember seeing the bit where the character screams about hating Crows but can't recall what section of the film it's in.
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Rocket Mick on 16/03/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#7 Posted : 16 March 2019 02:58:38(UTC)
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Cheers Fotzepolitic.

Yeah, it's been a while since I saw 2001, but remembered it as being near the end, when Dave disables Hal.

Typically of me, I thought 'oh, what the Hell' a few minutes ago, and started looking for the clips. I never learn. I must be short of something to do.

I've found most of them fairly easily. '2001' was easy, for the reason stated above.
With 'Caligula', I just found the script on line, judged where the line I could make out was in the film and found it in about 1 minute.
Incidentally, that line is 'Crawl, Crawl, Crawl - I hate them!'. I've just learned that. I thought it was crows too.

Currently trying to find that other line from 'Caligula' that's repeated a few times. The first time it appears is at 2:00, then at 2:11, 2:16, 2:24, 2:28, 2:32 and 2:36.
Are you able to make it out? It isn't 'crawl across', as stated on various lyrics sites.
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Rocket Mick on 16/03/2019(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#8 Posted : 16 March 2019 03:36:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Cheers Fotzepolitic.

Yeah, it's been a while since I saw 2001, but remembered it as being near the end, when Dave disables Hal.

Typically of me, I thought 'oh, what the Hell' a few minutes ago, and started looking for the clips. I never learn. I must be short of something to do.

I've found most of them fairly easily. '2001' was easy, for the reason stated above.
With 'Caligula', I just found the script on line, judged where the line I could make out was in the film and found it in about 1 minute.
Incidentally, that line is 'Crawl, Crawl, Crawl - I hate them!'. I've just learned that. I thought it was crows too.

Currently trying to find that other line from 'Caligula' that's repeated a few times. The first time it appears is at 2:00, then at 2:11, 2:16, 2:24, 2:28, 2:32 and 2:36.
Are you able to make it out? It isn't 'crawl across', as stated on various lyrics sites.


Yeah i think it is " Crawl, crawl, crawl..." rather than crows.It's just that i remembered in the scene in Caligula the character is being bothered by a crow or a number of crows so i assumed it was "Crows, crows, crows.I hate them!" But i may have remembered the scene wrongly and maybe there wasn't in fact any crows! But of course a gathering of crows is a Murder, "A Murder of crows", and the track is called Murder.

Nope, never worked out what the bit at 2:00, 2:11, 2:16, 2:24, 2:28, 2:32 and 2:36 is.


As i think Barney or Steve say in that Burn article the only reason Murder wasn't included on P,C & L was space issues as only 35 minutes could be fitted on vinyl.I'm sure a little longer than that could have been fitted on vinyl back in the day though? I'm sure i have vinyl albums that total a fair bit longer than 35 minutes.I assumed Murder wasn't included because it was maybe too similar to something like Ultraviolence.Well, not that much like Ultraviolence but maybe a similar vibe.I added Murder to P,C &L on my iTunes a while back.Stuck it between Ultraviolence and Ecstasy.Murder is of course one of only a few tracks Bernard plays bass on.

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perspexorange  
#9 Posted : 16 March 2019 04:18:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
As i think Barney or Steve say in that Burn article the only reason Murder wasn't included on P,C & L was space issues as only 35 minutes could be fitted on vinyl.I'm sure a little longer than that could have been fitted on vinyl back in the day though? I'm sure i have vinyl albums that total a fair bit longer than 35 minutes.I assumed Murder wasn't included because it was maybe too similar to something like Ultraviolence.Well, not that much like Ultraviolence but maybe a similar vibe.I added Murder to P,C &L on my iTunes a while back.Stuck it between Ultraviolence and Ecstasy.Murder is of course one of only a few tracks Bernard plays bass on.



I've always loved 'Murder'. It's a magnificent piece and a shame it wasn't included on PC&L. If it had of been, I think the LP would've been even better (hard to imagine).
I think your placing of it between Ultraviolence & Ecstasy is a good call. I may do the same.

Yeah, only just learned that Barney played bass on it.
Listening to it, it's a similar technique at the end of the song to what was played by him on Confusion (at least live; not sure if he played bass on the record).
You'll have to forgive my severe lack of technical 'bass playing' knowledge here, but it sounds like he's strumming the (vertically) higher string with his thumb and plucking the lower string with his fingers; a technique Hooky rarely seemed to do (but does on at start of TPK video).
I may be completely wrong on this though.

Anyway, ignoring the other (presumably) 'Caligula' sample (which I can't find), I've compiled another video for 'Murder', incorporating all the samples used:

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Fotzepolitic  
#10 Posted : 16 March 2019 04:51:24(UTC)
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Another great YouTube upload, perspexorange.Cracking work.

And i never knew some of the music in Murder is sampled also from 2001.That 'Kyrie' section from Ligeti's Requiem.I've seen that scene in 2001 but never connected the music as being what's sampled for Murder.Funny how you still learn new things about New Order after all these years.
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Rocket Mick on 16/03/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#11 Posted : 16 March 2019 05:28:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Another great YouTube upload, perspexorange.Cracking work.


Glad you like. It was actually quite fun doing it.
I still have the various ‘parts’ saved, along with the rest of the film. So, if anyone knows what that missing sample is (Johnny James, maybe), I can hunt it down and update the video.

Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
And i never knew some of the music in Murder is sampled alsho from 2001.That 'Kyrie' section from Ligeti's Requiem.I've seen that scene in 2001 but never connected the music as being what's sampled for Murder.Funny how you still learn new things about New Order after all these years.


Yeah. I only found out about it through Dennis’ excellent ‘From Ceremony To Superheated’ blog.
I’m not sure which exact bit is sampled, but I think the bit I put in my video is close enough.

Right, I’m off to the pub after all that hard work...
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Rocket Mick on 16/03/2019(UTC)
Michael Monkhouse  
#12 Posted : 16 March 2019 05:35:57(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

And for those of you who like boobs (Michael, this is specifically for you)


They say men can't think about two things at once... The nudity is beautiful and an essential part of the symbolism.
I loved this play when it was first broadcast and only heard about the New Order link later.
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Rocket Mick on 16/03/2019(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#13 Posted : 16 March 2019 07:05:22(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post


Right, I’m off to the pub after all that hard work...


Thanks for the great uplaods.My favourite bit is when the grotesque figure pops up over the side of the boat with the "Keith Taylor is going to hound youoo!" in the Way Upstream thing.Love it.

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Rocket Mick on 17/03/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#14 Posted : 16 March 2019 10:02:40(UTC)
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No problem. As I said, it was quite fun.
Was really pleased that I found that Way Upstream clip. And pleased at how simple it is now to reverse mp3s online now.

I think I’ve said before, but back in the late 80s, I’d heard that there was an Exorcist quote in Don’t Do It. So me and a mate ran it threw his sampler and, after much fussing, we can out with something that sounded a little like ‘your mother... etc.’ We had no idea that that line was famous and we couldn’t be sure that’s what it said. It certainly wasn’t as clear as the version I uploaded.

All I did yesterday (30 years later) is upload the mp3 to a site online. It automatically reversed it. I then used iMovie to cut out the bit I wanted. Easy-peasy.
Technology eh?

Talking about the ‘Keith Taylor’ bit, I had no idea that’s what it said in the song. I had always thought that it was probably reversed also. At the very least, I had assumed there was some vocal effect added by the band to the sample. Not so, by the sounds of things.

Any idea what the guy says when he first comes out of the water? It seems to mention the word ‘hound’ again but I can’t quite make out the line. The second line is definitely ‘Keith Taylor is going to hound you’ (which doesn’t really make any sense, cos I think the frightened guy is Keith Taylor, from what little I’ve watched of the programme).
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Rocket Mick on 17/03/2019(UTC)
Fotzepolitic  
#15 Posted : 16 March 2019 10:30:12(UTC)
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Think he says "I'm going to hound you in days(?)" when he first comes out of the water.Not entirely sure though.For years i always thought in Don't Do It it was "Heard Kramer is going to the house bloom!!" which doesn't make much sense.

I'll have to get round to watching that Way Upstream thing in full if i can at some point, looks great!

Edited by user 16 March 2019 10:32:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rocket Mick on 17/03/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#16 Posted : 17 March 2019 01:31:15(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Michael Monkhouse Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

And for those of you who like boobs (Michael, this is specifically for you)


They say men can't think about two things at once... The nudity is beautiful and an essential part of the symbolism.
I loved this play when it was first broadcast and only heard about the New Order link later.


Hey, if you like nudity (who doesn't?), you should watch the uncut 'Caligula'. I had no idea it was that pornographic. Crikey!

Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Think he says "I'm going to hound you in days(?)" when he first comes out of the water.Not entirely sure though.For years i always thought in Don't Do It it was "Heard Kramer is going to the house bloom!!" which doesn't make much sense.

I'll have to get round to watching that Way Upstream thing in full if i can at some point, looks great!


Yeah, I may try and watch it myself. It looked quite good, what I saw of it.

I think you might be right about what he says. The last word may be 'days' / 'date' or something similar.
Maybe things will be clearer if we watch the play, i.e. we may need to know context. Maybe it repeats something that was said earlier in the play.

Just read a synopsis online and the scared guy appears to be someone called 'Alistair Wingate' and not 'Keith Taylor'. So at least it makes sense now that the murky guy ('Vince Grant') is mentioning 'Keith Taylor' to Alistair.
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Rocket Mick on 17/03/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#17 Posted : 17 March 2019 02:19:31(UTC)
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Just noticed that the line used by the woman in fishnets 'You can't go under the bridge, Alistair. It's one of the conditions of hire' is also in 'Don't Do It'. At the 2:30 mark.

So, incredibly, in that one minute clip, the band use four different samples:

1) 'Keith Taylor is going to hound you';
2) 'You can't go under the bridge, Alistair. It's one of the conditions of hire';
3) Machine-gun fire;
4) 'We're going to get you'.

It's quite weird that all the samples are so close together. Maybe Steve (probably) thought that dream sequence was a little interesting and sampled it with the intention of using bits, here and there, in various tracks. Then thought 'sod it' and dumped 'em all into 'Don't Do It'.

Edited by user 17 March 2019 02:20:29(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Fotzepolitic  
#18 Posted : 27 March 2019 07:43:07(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Fotzepolitic Go to Quoted Post
Think he says "I'm going to hound you in days(?)" when he first comes out of the water.

I'll have to get round to watching that Way Upstream thing in full if i can at some point, looks great!


Yeah, I may try and watch it myself. It looked quite good, what I saw of it.

I think you might be right about what he says. The last word may be 'days' / 'date' or something similar.
Maybe things will be clearer if we watch the play, i.e. we may need to know context. Maybe it repeats something that was said earlier in the play.

Just read a synopsis online and the scared guy appears to be someone called 'Alistair Wingate' and not 'Keith Taylor'. So at least it makes sense now that the murky guy ('Vince Grant') is mentioning 'Keith Taylor' to Alistair.


Yes it's "I'm going to hound you, Wingate!" Wingate is the surname of the scared guy.

I've watched the whole thing on YouTube.8 parts, each around 10-12 minutes long.It's fairly boring really.Well the first half is.Gets a bit better later on.Very, very dated as you'd imagine.Acting not the best and dialogue clunky.They take on board a guy who turns out unsurprisingly a bit mad.It was probably a good watch back in 1988 though!

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perspexorange  
#19 Posted : 27 March 2019 08:51:54(UTC)
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Ah, well done!

I can't believe I didn't think of 'Wingate', considering I'd already found out what his name was. 'In Date' / 'Wingate'. It seems obvious now. D'oh!

I've been thinking of other videos like this to make, but can't think of any other TV / film samples that New Order used.
Maybe I could do the ones off 'Control' (i.e. 'Hypnosis' and 'Get Out'), but these don't seem very exciting.

Is there an obvious track that uses samples that I'm missing?

I really wish I could identify that other 'Caligula' sample we mentioned above.
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Rocket Mick on 30/03/2019(UTC)
Prime586  
#20 Posted : 02 April 2019 04:03:04(UTC)
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I posted about the source for the 'Don't Do It' samples on the old forum (about 8 years ago?) under my old username after managing to track down a copy of Way Upstream (it was only ever shown on the BBC twice, and Alan Ayckbourn forbids any TV or radio adaptations of his plays to be sold to the public). Back then only the first third of the play was on Youtube, so I couldn't post links to the exact clips. I presume everything from the old forum is lost in time now though?

The Alan Aykbourn play the programme was adapted from was first staged on 02/10/81 at the Stephen Joseph theatre in Scarborough and involved flooding the stage to host a full-sized cabin cruiser. The staging of it was the subject of a BBC Radio 3 documentary aired on 31/10/81. It's an allegorical tale about morality and leadership, and how people who consider themselves best suited to be leaders usually turn out to be the worst candidates. The two innocent lead characters Alastair and Emma who survive the overthrow of Vince's dictatorial regime at 'Armageddon Bridge' are then 'reborn' as analogues of Adam and Eve to make a fresh start, hence the nudity (a bit of extra trivia - the blonde-haired actress playing the witch-like Fleur is Lizzie McInnery, younger sister of Tim 'Lord Percy/Captain Darling' McInnerny, and was originally from Cheadle Hulme).

The two BBC1 screenings of the TV adaptation of the play were at 10pm on 01/01/88 and 9.30pm on 17/08/1989, so Steve must have taped the 01/01/88 showing as the repeat was after Fine Time was released. I have a burned-in memory of watching the 1988 showing with my mum and dad, and being a teenager the full frontal nudity made the final scenes a bit awkward. When I got a copy of Fine Time a year later hearing the 'Keith Taylor is going to hound you!" made me think 'I know where that's from!', but by that time I'd forgotten the title and it took another 15 years before I was able to work out what it was (courtesy of a couple of members of a UK TV forum identifying it from my desciption of the plot).

Around 1990 during the Judas Priest 'backward masking' trial the editor of the ITV Oracle teletext music pages 'Blue Suede Views' asked readers for other examples of possible back masking, and I sent in a letter about the Exorcist sample and a tougue-in-cheek comment about a possible satanist coven operating at Factory. Back in the late 90s before I'd been able to find the title again I also posted in a thread about the band's use of samples on the old Usenet alt.music.new-order group that the dialogue came from an old BBC 'Play For Today'-type programme that I couldn't remember title of.

On the subject of recreating thie rsamples, which episode of the original Star trek series did Steve sample on the Emulator II to use whien they were playing live around 1987? They crop up on Sister Ray on the BBC Glastonbury 87 transcription, and he plays with them during the Hacienda soundcheck video.

Edited by user 02 April 2019 04:03:53(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Fotzepolitic  
#21 Posted : 02 April 2019 09:42:56(UTC)
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^ Wow many thanks for that detailed info, Prime586.The play is VERY 1988.

As regards the Star Trek sample yeah they also used that during Sister Ray ( Or was it Do The Ostrich?) at the Sheffield Roxy gig June 87
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perspexorange  
#22 Posted : 02 April 2019 09:47:19(UTC)
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Very interesting information.

I didn’t know (or, more likely, had forgotten) about the Star Trek samples.

I’ll have a listen and see if I can recognise the bits in question.
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Prime586  
#23 Posted : 02 April 2019 13:40:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Very interesting information.

I didn’t know (or, more likely, had forgotten) about the Star Trek samples.

I’ll have a listen and see if I can recognise the bits in question.


I have identified a couple from the Hacienda soundcheck - Kirk saying "Computerised Half-Breed!" is from the Series 1 episode This Side Of Paradise, which was last broadcast before 1987 on 20/11/84 on BBC1. There's also a sample of Scotty saying "Emergency gyros and stabilisers at maximum", which is from the Series 3 episode Plato's Stepchildren, which was banned by the BBC until 1992. Although Star Trek was repeated by the BBC between 1984 and 1986, the dialogue from a banned episode points towards Steve probably having bought home VHS copies of the series, which started to be released n the early 80s by CIC Video in the UK.
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Rocket Mick on 03/04/2019(UTC)
perspexorange  
#24 Posted : 03 April 2019 10:00:02(UTC)
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Looks like ‘my mother was a teacher’ used in that Hacienda footage is also from ‘This Side Of Paradise’.
I think the ‘anywhere in the galaxy’ is probably from ‘Turnabout Intruder’.
Not sure where the Kirk ‘thank-you’, Scotty ‘Captain!’ or gunfire samples are from, and the transporter sound could be taken from any episode I guess.

I feel like a tremendous nerd now... 😀

Edited by user 03 April 2019 10:00:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked perspexorange for this useful post.
Rocket Mick on 03/04/2019(UTC)
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