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CTB wrote:Because Peter Hook was the non-singing bass player in those bands for 30 years (with very few exceptions, DNE and Interzone), not the lead vocalist who wears a bass as a stage prop.
If he was performing the same role in the Light as he did in JD/NO, I'd be less critical, but to voluntarily leave the band he had been part of for 30 years only to get some session musos and bass-playing son to help you pretend you are the singer of the band you were in and then tour said former band's albums track-by-track....not much dignity there IMO. Do you feel as strongly about New Order performing the likes of Isolation, Atmosphere and LWTUA in their current set? Or indeed, even, Ceremony? Given that only 2 of the 5 actually had any part in those tracks and one of them is providing vocals for which he was not originally responsible?
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El Jarvo wrote:CTB wrote:Because Peter Hook was the non-singing bass player in those bands for 30 years (with very few exceptions, DNE and Interzone), not the lead vocalist who wears a bass as a stage prop.
If he was performing the same role in the Light as he did in JD/NO, I'd be less critical, but to voluntarily leave the band he had been part of for 30 years only to get some session musos and bass-playing son to help you pretend you are the singer of the band you were in and then tour said former band's albums track-by-track....not much dignity there IMO. Do you feel as strongly about New Order performing the likes of Isolation, Atmosphere and LWTUA in their current set? Or indeed, even, Ceremony? Given that only 2 of the 5 actually had any part in those tracks and one of them is providing vocals for which he was not originally responsible? No, I don't. I don't feel any different about the pre-Hook departure version of NO playing those songs than I do about the current line up doing them. Do you feel that New Order shouldn't have performed Gilbert-co-written songs live from 2001-2007? It's the same perspective (unless this thread is about to descend to the murky "Hooky was more important to NO than Gillian" territory, which is a rubbish topic) Conversely, would you have NO retire their entire Hook-era songs to render them more valid? Taking this logic further, doesn't this mean you're equating Ian's suicide and Hooky's public acting out/leaving NO as equal grounds for the retirement of songs? Answers on a postcard...
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CTB wrote:Do you feel that New Order shouldn't have performed Gilbert-co-written songs live from 2001-2007? It's the same perspective (unless this thread is about to descend to the murky "Hooky was more important to NO than Gillian" territory, which is a rubbish topic)
Conversely, would you have NO retire their entire Hook-era songs to render them more valid? Taking this logic further, doesn't this mean you're equating Ian's suicide and Hooky's public acting out/leaving NO as equal grounds for the retirement of songs?
Answers on a postcard...
No, I don't. But then I'm not the one deriding Hooky's band as being the "textbook definition of a tribute act".
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El Jarvo wrote:CTB wrote:Do you feel that New Order shouldn't have performed Gilbert-co-written songs live from 2001-2007? It's the same perspective (unless this thread is about to descend to the murky "Hooky was more important to NO than Gillian" territory, which is a rubbish topic)
Conversely, would you have NO retire their entire Hook-era songs to render them more valid? Taking this logic further, doesn't this mean you're equating Ian's suicide and Hooky's public acting out/leaving NO as equal grounds for the retirement of songs?
Answers on a postcard...
No, I don't. But then I'm not the one deriding Hooky's band as being the "textbook definition of a tribute act". Guess I am the one who is doing that - and I stand by it. Hooky's touring of JD nostalgia was dubious but touring NO albums deserves derision. I'm surprised that there's so much defensiveness around Hooky still, in the light (sorry) of what he's doing with The Light, as the idea of quitting New Order in order to do New Order album tours is pretty indefensible IMO, but each to their own. Edited by user 05 April 2014 05:41:16(UTC)
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CTB slightly edging ahead in the debate.
Unfortunately, can't seem to back down from his claim that a definitive tribute band contains a member of the original act. Afraid he's on his own with that one.
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Andy wrote:CTB slightly edging ahead in the debate.
Unfortunately, can't seem to back down from his claim that a definitive tribute band contains a member of the original act. Afraid he's on his own with that one. I might've chosen my words prematurely earlier, admittedly the Light is not strictly speaking a 'textbook definition' (if such a thing exists?) of a tribute act.....but IMO is much closer to a tribute act or cover band than the current line up of New Order. Perhaps I'll acknowledge that the two bands are similar when NO becomes Steve singing all the songs with a prop snare drum in front of him while one of his kids plays drums and some session musos from The Other Two album do a tour playing Substance from start to finish...?  Edited by user 04 April 2014 17:28:33(UTC)
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Brazilian Order get ready for World in Motion tomorrow!!! Yeah!!! |
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Sometimes I think Hooky should actually answer every question in a bearpit : certainly, being questioned about his position by people that are knowledgable about the band and able to counter his position - not people that are either OHMYGODIM'MTALKINGTOSOMEONEFROMTHEBAND Hipsters or know-nothing journos - that would be interesting. To an extent, I'd rather he just say "I need the money to pay the lawyers to fight the band". There's a reason John Cleese called his live show "The Alimony Tour." On the other hand? Setlist time. Here we go. 01. Ceremony* (It's a JD song) 02. Regret 03. Crystal (drum intro) 04. Here To Stay OR I'll Stay With You 05. Round & Round OR World OR Chemical 06. Vanishing Point OR Mr. Disco 07. Krafty OR Sirens Call 08. Thieves Like Us OR Confusion OR Run 09. Bizarre Love Triangle 10. True Faith 11. 586 - medley into > 12. Everything's Gone Green - medley into > 13. Temptation 14. Fine Time -- 15. The Perfect Kiss 16. Blue Monday --- LWTUA (optional) Edited by user 06 April 2014 13:33:32(UTC)
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CTB wrote:I'm surprised that there's so much defensiveness around Hooky still, in the light (sorry) of what he's doing with The Light, as the idea of quitting New Order in order to do New Order album tours is pretty indefensible IMO, but each to their own. And I'm surprised there's so much animosity surrounding a bloke who has helped soundtrack the majority of our lives. Still, as you say, each to their own. Edited by user 07 April 2014 02:08:49(UTC)
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El Jarvo wrote:CTB wrote:I'm surprised that there's so much defensiveness around Hooky still, in the light (sorry) of what he's doing with The Light, as the idea of quitting New Order in order to do New Order album tours is pretty indefensible IMO, but each to their own. And I'm surprised there's so much animosity surrounding a bloke who has helped soundtrack the majority of our lives. Still, as you say, each to their own. I should just let this go, but if you are interested to know the possible source of the Hooky animosity, consider the incessant name calling and disrespect to his former bandmates such as the classy putdowns of Gillian he has done in the press while simultaneously forging ahead with the law of diminishing returns of dignity that is The Light.
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CTB wrote:I should just let this go, but if you are interested to know the possible source of the Hooky
animosity, consider the incessant name calling and disrespect to his former bandmates such as the classy putdowns of Gillian he has done in the press while simultaneously forging ahead with the law of diminishing returns of dignity that is The Light. You better brace yourself then. I'm sure any war of words will ramp up astronomically in the near future as there'll be New Order books coming from both camps, presumably by the end of this year. Let's face it, the bickering will help sell any future product and keep them firmly in the spotlight in the press.
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makes you wonder how many of barneys lyrics aren't about former conquests but are in fact a thinly veiled attack on the Hookstar.
way of life
face up
hey now, what you doing
etc, etc
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markreed wrote:Sometimes I think Hooky should actually answer every question in a bearpit : certainly, being questioned about his position by people that are knowledgable about the band and able to counter his position - not people that are either OHMYGODIM'MTALKINGTOSOMEONEFROMTHEBAND Hipsters or know-nothing journos - that would be interesting. To an extent, I'd rather he just say "I need the money to pay the lawyers to fight the band". There's a reason John Cleese called his live show "The Alimony Tour."
On the other hand? Setlist time. Here we go.
01. Ceremony* (It's a JD song)
02. Regret
03. Crystal (drum intro)
04. Here To Stay OR I'll Stay With You
05. Round & Round OR World OR Chemical
06. Vanishing Point OR Mr. Disco
07. Krafty OR Sirens Call
08. Thieves Like Us OR Confusion OR Run
09. Bizarre Love Triangle
10. True Faith
11. 586 - medley into >
12. Everything's Gone Green - medley into >
13. Temptation
14. Fine Time
--
15. The Perfect Kiss
16. Blue Monday
---
LWTUA (optional) I agree about Ceremony but it suited me to list as N.O. for my post. I usually describe Ceremony as a Joy Division song but a New Order track.
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"this is how it must be on a payroll company".
Actually, that would be a stormer live.
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El Jarvo wrote:CTB wrote:I should just let this go, but if you are interested to know the possible source of the Hooky
animosity, consider the incessant name calling and disrespect to his former bandmates such as the classy putdowns of Gillian he has done in the press while simultaneously forging ahead with the law of diminishing returns of dignity that is The Light. You better brace yourself then. I'm sure any war of words will ramp up astronomically in the near future as there'll be New Order books coming from both camps, presumably by the end of this year. Let's face it, the bickering will help sell any future product and keep them firmly in the spotlight in the press. I'd be more surprised if it didn't ramp up, but I predict the mudslinging will be coming more from one side, the side less likely to selling future 'product' in the form of new material... Bringing this back on topic, I really like Face up, The Village, Leave me alone and Procession, would be very pleasantly surprised if any of these returned. Or Lonesome tonight. Edited by user 08 April 2014 01:27:29(UTC)
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Bringing this back on topic, I really like Face up, The Village, Leave me alone and Procession, would be very pleasantly surprised if any of these returned. Or Lonesome tonight Great choices CTB 
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My dream setlist would be 1.Ceremony 2.Blue Monday 3.Mr. Disco 4.Sub-Culture 5.Paradise 6.Age of Consent 7.Dreams Never End 8.Denial 9.Leave Me Alone 10.Your Silent Face 11.Temptation 12.Everything's Gone Green 13.Lonesome Tonight 14.Turn 15.This Time of Night 16.The Perfect Kiss Encore 17.Vanishing Point 18.Wilderness 19.Shadowplay 20.Love Will Tear us Apart Edited by user 04 July 2014 16:03:41(UTC)
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My dreams normally involve the use of Melanie C and a shower attachment. Dreams Never End with Steve on vocals. Liar, Procession and World with Melanie C on backing vocals. Pineapple Face. Wannabe (cover). Another newbie. Perfect Kiss. Love Reaction http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFp15Wc4TzEI'll Stay With You. Pictures in my Mind. (PS Remember this thread? http://www.neworderonlin...List.aspx?ThreadID=33184) Edited by user 05 July 2014 03:17:29(UTC)
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