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perspexorange  
#1 Posted : 04 September 2021 01:33:33(UTC)
perspexorange

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Following on from an earlier discussion we had a few months ago about ‘working titles’, I’ve noticed that a few more are listed on some of the items up for sale in Hooky’s latest auction.

I’ve listed them here, with working titles first, followed by probable real titles in brackets/parenthesis:

Lot 314
https://bid.omegaauction...;pp=50&pn=7&g=-1

Low Life Era

Melodic One 6:51
Japanesey One 5:25 (‘Face Up’)
Spaghetti Western 6:13
Perfect Harp 5:00
Ben & Justin 5:00
This Time Of Nite 4:38 (‘The Time Of Night’)
Love Grows 4:20
? West 1 (can’t make out first word) 4:30

I’m pretty sure that the Japanesey One is ‘Face Up’, as I’ve seen this listed before.
Perfect Harp you would imagine would be ‘The Perfect Kiss’.
Ben & Justin has to be ‘Elegia’ based on those samples in the full-length versions.

So, we just need to work out:

Melodic One
Spaghetti Western
Love Grows
? West 1

These should probably tie up to ‘Love Vigilantes’, ‘Sunrise’, ‘Sooner Than You Think’ and ‘Sub-Culture’, but could also refer to ‘Let’s Go’, as this is from that era.
Love Grows could be ‘Love Vigilantes’, based on the title.
No idea with the others.

Brotherhood Era

The Haunted One 4:09
Age Of Consent II (Way Of Life)
Weirdo (Weirdo)
Broken Promises (Broken Promise)
Shame Of The Nation 6:36 (State Of The Nation)
As It Is When It Was 3:50 (As It Is When It Was)
B.L.T. 4:20 (Bizarre Love Triangle)
All Day Long 5:11 (All Day Long)
The Street Zounds Araby One / Evil Dust / The Araby One 3:40 (Angel Dust)
Elegia II

This just leaves:

The Haunted One
Elegia II

These should probably tie up to ‘Paradise’, and ‘Every Little Counts’.
The image on the auction describes The Haunted One as ‘pleading’, which probably ties it up with ‘Paradise’ (‘I want you, I want you’ is pretty ‘pleading’).

More to follow...

Edited by user 04 September 2021 03:09:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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perspexorange  
#2 Posted : 04 September 2021 02:00:40(UTC)
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Lot 323

https://bid.omegaauction...;pp=50&pn=7&g=-1

Regret ('Regret')
Techno One / Tech 2 ('World')
Big Chord ('Ruined In A Day')
Spooky One ('Spooky')
New Guitar One ('Everyone Everywhere')
Identify ('Young Offender')
Everyone Everywhere ('Liar')
Techno 2 ('Chemical')
Oboe One ('Times Change')
Chemical ('Special')
Classical One ('Avalanche')

More to follow...
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perspexorange  
#3 Posted : 04 September 2021 02:28:12(UTC)
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Lot 351

https://bid.omegaauction...;pp=50&pn=7&g=-1

Road To Ruin ('Hey Now What You Doing')
Turn Your Eyes ('Turn')
Groundhog / Groundhog Day ('Turn') (I think)
Madonna / Madonna One ('Hellbent')
Working Overtime ('Working Overtime')
March 3rd ('Working Overtime')
Till Hell Freezes Over ('I'll Stay With You')
Del Shannon ('I'll Stay With You')
I've Got A Feeling ('I've Got A Feeling')
Pop One ('Morning, Night & Day')
Waiting For The Sirens' Call ('Waiting For The Sirens' Call')
Lordsy ('Who's Joe?')
Mini Disc 2 ('Dracula's Castle')
Sugar Cane ('Sugarcane')
Krafty ('Krafty')
Fast Synth ('Guilt Is A Useless Emotion')
Rocky Chorus
Doomey / Doomy / Doomy One ('Californian Grass')
Ragga
Scott Walker ('Recoil')
Spinoff
Friction
I Told You So ('I Told You So')
Jet ('Jetstream')
Fuse Blower
Reggae One
Last Minute
Slow Beat
Guitar Riff Idea
Flamenco One / Tron

There are various different documents in this lot, presumably from different time periods. Hence, why there are some different names used for the same tracks.
Some of the above are obvious and some I've managed to identify based on 'WFTSC' demos that have previously done the rounds and chat on here and elsewhere.

'I Told You So', 'Jetstream' and 'Shake It Up are presumably one of either 'Rocky Chorus', 'Doomey', 'Ragga', 'Spinoff' or 'Friction' as these are missing from the first list.

There's also a 'B List' image with many other titles, but thought it seemed unlikely that these ever got passed the 'noodling stage', so thought I'd miss these out.

Final post on the way...

Edited by user 04 September 2021 02:38:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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perspexorange  
#4 Posted : 04 September 2021 02:33:12(UTC)
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Lot 398

https://bid.omegaauction...;pp=50&pn=8&g=-1

Just a couple on here:

Guitary-Westerny One
Love Grows (again!)

I'm guessing these are from 'Low Life'.
It might mean I was a little 'off' with my earlier thinking that 'Love Grows' was 'Love Vigilantes', as 'Guitary-Westerny One' seems more apt.



Anyway, thought it might be fun to speculate.

I'd welcome anyone else's thoughts.
And perhaps Johnny James' might provide some insider input too

Edited by user 04 September 2021 03:02:56(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Atrocity  
#5 Posted : 04 September 2021 02:36:26(UTC)
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? West ... possibly read as Quit West ?...Lets Go ?

Spag Western ..definitely Sunrise ? 6.19 ..6 mins on LP

Love grows ..Love Viglantes 4.19 ..4.20 on LP.

Age Of Consent II is definitely Way Of Lif (Way Of Life is written over Age Of Consent II on another jotter page)

Edited by user 04 September 2021 02:56:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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perspexorange  
#6 Posted : 04 September 2021 02:57:50(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Atrocity Go to Quoted Post
? West ... possibly read as Quit West ?...Lets Go ?

Spag Western ..definetely Sunrise ? 6.19 ..6 mins on LP

Love grows ..Love Viglantes 4.19 ..4.20 on LP.


My thoughts were that Spaghetti Western was probably 'Sunrise' too. Mainly due to the length.
I'm thinking 'Melodic One' is possibly 'Sub-Culture'.

It could definitely be 'Quit'. Well deciphered!

Looking at it, it appears that the title has a '1' at the end, i.e. 'Quit West 1'.


I've just noticed that Age Of Consent II appears to be 'Way Of Life' (you can see the former name hidden under the correct name on one of the images), so have amended my post.


I've tried to amend one of comments on the WFTSC post above, but it gets rejected as spam.
It should read:
'I Told You So', 'Jetstream' and 'Shake It Up are presumably one of either 'Rocky Chorus', 'Ragga', 'Spinoff' or 'Friction' as these are missing from the first list.

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Johnny James  
#7 Posted : 04 September 2021 03:10:47(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post


Low Life Era

Melodic One 6:51
Japanesey One 5:25 (‘Face Up’)
Spaghetti Western 6:13
Perfect Harp 5:00
Ben & Justin 5:00
This Time Of Nite 4:38 (‘The Time Of Night’)
Love Grows 4:20
? West (can’t make to first word) 4:30

I’m pretty sure that the Japanesey One is ‘Face Up’, as I’ve seen this listed before.
Perfect Harp you would imagine would be ‘The Perfect Kiss’.
Ben & Justin has to be ‘Elegia’ based on those samples in the full-length versions.

So, we just need to work out:

Melodic One
Spaghetti Western
Love Grows
? West

These should probably tie up to ‘Love Vigilantes’, ‘Sunrise’, ‘Sooner Than You Think’ and ‘Sub-Culture’, but could also refer to ‘Let’s Go’, as this is from that era.
Love Grows could be ‘Love Vigilantes’, based on the title.
No idea with the others.

Brotherhood Era

The Haunted One 4:09
Age Of Consent II (Way Of Life)
Weirdo (Weirdo)
Broken Promises (Broken Promise)
Shame Of The Nation 6:36 (State Of The Nation)
As It Is When It Was 3:50 (As It Is When It Was)
B.L.T. 4:20 (Bizarre Love Triangle)
All Day Long 5:11 (All Day Long)
The Street Zounds Araby One / Evil Dust / The Araby One 3:40 (Angel Dust)
Elegia II

This just leaves:

The Haunted One
Elegia II

These should probably tie up to ‘Paradise’, and ‘Every Little Counts’.
The image on the auction describes The Haunted One as ‘pleading’, which probably ties it up with ‘Paradise’ (‘I want you, I want you’ is pretty ‘pleading’).

More to follow...


Low Life

Melodic One - Sooner Than You Think
Ben + Justin - Elegia
Japanesy One - Face Up
Perfect Harpsichord One - Sub Culture
Love Grows - Love Vigilantes
Spaghetti Westerny One - Sunrise
Guitarry Westerny One - Let's Go

Brotherhood

Haunted One - Paradise
Elegia II or Son Of Elegia - Not quite sure about this one, likely to be 'All Day Long'.
The others are right.

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perspexorange  
#8 Posted : 04 September 2021 03:34:39(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post

Low Life

Melodic One - Sooner Than You Think
Ben + Justin - Elegia
Japanesy One - Face Up
Perfect Harpsichord One - Sub Culture
Love Grows - Love Vigilantes
Spaghetti Westerny One - Sunrise
Guitarry Westerny One - Let's Go

Brotherhood

Haunted One - Paradise
Elegia II or Son Of Elegia - Not quite sure about this one, likely to be 'All Day Long'.
The others are right.



Many thanks for this JJ!

I'm thinking Elegia II / Son of Elegia must be 'Every Little Counts.
On this image 'All Day Long' and 'Elegia II' are both listed. 'Every Little Counts' is the only one missing:

UserPostedImage

9 x LP tracks, plus 'State Of The Nation'.

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Johnny James  
#9 Posted : 04 September 2021 03:44:29(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Johnny James Go to Quoted Post

Low Life

Melodic One - Sooner Than You Think
Ben + Justin - Elegia
Japanesy One - Face Up
Perfect Harpsichord One - Sub Culture
Love Grows - Love Vigilantes
Spaghetti Westerny One - Sunrise
Guitarry Westerny One - Let's Go

Brotherhood

Haunted One - Paradise
Elegia II or Son Of Elegia - Not quite sure about this one, likely to be 'All Day Long'.
The others are right.



Many thanks for this JJ!

I'm thinking Elegia II / Son of Elegia must be 'Every Little Counts.
On this image 'All Day Long' and 'Elegia II' are both listed. 'Every Little Counts' is the only one missing:

UserPostedImage

9 x LP tracks, plus 'State Of The Nation'.



Yep, that makes sense.

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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Debaser  
#10 Posted : 04 September 2021 04:38:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: perspexorange Go to Quoted Post

I've tried to amend one of comments on the WFTSC post above, but it gets rejected as spam.
It should read:
'I Told You So', 'Jetstream' and 'Shake It Up are presumably one of either 'Rocky Chorus', 'Ragga', 'Spinoff' or 'Friction' as these are missing from the first list.


You don't get this level of dedication on the Facebook groups!

I would bet money that Ragga = I Told You So.
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
Fotz  
#11 Posted : 04 September 2021 04:51:26(UTC)
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Couple of surprises for me were that the Japanesy One is Face Up and not State Of The Nation and Spaghetti Western One is Sunrise and not Elegia. The reason I say that is that State Of The Nation has that synth sound to kick it off and throughout that you could say is almost a Japanese sound, no? And they did end up recording it in Japan if I’m not wrong. And Elegia is like something Morricone could have written for a Spaghetti Western.

Oh and I can see Sub Culture as Perfect Harp as the synth sound at the start and throughout is almost a harpsichord sound.Alright harp and harpsichord are 2 different instruments but maybe they just called harpsichord a harp for short with the title. Am I making any sense? Maybe not

Edited by user 04 September 2021 04:57:02(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Debaser  
#12 Posted : 04 September 2021 04:57:56(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Fotz Go to Quoted Post
Couple of surprises for me were that the Japanesy One is Face Up and not State Of The Nation and Spaghetti Western One is Sunrise and not Elegia. The reason I say that is that State Of The Nation has that synth sound to kick it off and throughout that you could say is almost a Japanese sound, no? And they did end up recording it in Japan if I’m not wrong. And Elegia is like something Morricone could have written for a Spaghetti Western.


Fair point(s). I remember in Smash Hits a "spokesman" for the group said State Of The Nation "could be about Japanese prostitutes on the bullet train".
And indeed during Tim's twitter listening parties, it was made clear that Elegia took an idea from A Few Dollars More - the tinkly "pocketwatch" music (as well as Blue Monday of course - twangy guitar for the Hooky bass).
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Fotz  
#13 Posted : 04 September 2021 05:03:25(UTC)
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^ Yep and also there’s a Morricone bit in For Few Dollars More where the guitar comes crashing in like Bernard does on Elegia
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
perspexorange  
#14 Posted : 04 September 2021 05:30:18(UTC)
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Good points both.

Elegia is very Morricone.

I’ve always thought ‘Face Up’ was pretty ‘Japanesey’. Not sure why. Certain elements just sound like they’re from the ‘Far East’ to me.

I recall reading that it was called ‘The Japanese One’ somewhere, possibly here:

https://www.new-order.ne.../facs/workingtitles.html

It mentions that bootleggers used that title, so maybe I first heard that title from one of the many bootleg LPs that I used to browse through at record fairs. I guess, in this case, the bootlegger knew something we didn’t and got the title correct.

And, yeah, NOOL is so much better than the Facebook groups. They’re just full of ‘what’s your favourite song’ posts.
It’s just a shame we don’t get more people posting here these days (I think we may have a fair amount of people who ‘view but don’t post’ though, so the boards aren’t dead yet, thankfully).
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ROCKET MICK on 07/11/2021(UTC)
GotBlueEyes  
#15 Posted : 06 September 2021 01:45:16(UTC)
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Does Love Grows - Love Vigilantes suggest that Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes) was the blueprint for LV?
Melodically it's not a million miles away
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Michael Monkhouse  
#16 Posted : 06 September 2021 14:53:14(UTC)
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Can vouch for some of them, e.g. Japanesey One is Face Up.
This'll keep you busy https://m.imgur.com/zWAQY0J
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Michael Monkhouse  
#17 Posted : 15 September 2021 09:59:54(UTC)
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I always thought Techno 2 was Spooky due to the newspaper clipping I linked at http://forums.neworderon...t=3368&p=7#post26670
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perspexorange  
#18 Posted : 03 November 2024 05:48:27(UTC)
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I've probably mentioned this several times before, but over the years, I've compiled a list of working titles used by the band.
I know we've discussed these at various points on these forums before (most recently on the 'Peter Hook Has Something To Say' thread).

For each 'working title', I've to try to corroborate with various official sources such as press cuttings, books (including images of tapes from the Definitive Edition books) and Johnny James' invaluable confirmations on these boards.
I've not only listed 'official' working titles but have also identified when a bootlegger has guessed a title and used it on a bootleg LP.

I still have a few though that I can't trace the source for and wondered if anyone had any info (including speculation) on these.
If anyone can shed any light on these, I'd be most grateful. Perhaps you remember an interview that mentioned the working title. Or, perhaps, you have a bootleg that uses the working title. Maybe you've seen an image of a setlist or master tape with the alternate title listed.
Any information gratefully received.


1) The Him > The Hymn
I've seen reference to this actually having a working title of 'The Hymn'. Is this correct?
Considering the two words (Him/Hymn) are homonyms, I'm wondering if it's just a case of someone hearing the name and assuming that the title of the track is 'The Hymn', as the 'The Him' doesn't really make much sense grammatically.
If you have any examples (bootlegs, images etc.) of when 'The Hymn' has been used, I'd be interested to hear about these.

2) Temptation > Taboo No. 7
According to Michael Johnson's 'An Ideal For Living', this was a working title. However, I don't think I've ever seen it stated as such in any other place? Johnson's book contains some errors, so I just wanted some other evidence of this.
I perhaps need to consult Dec Hickey's book - he might reference this.

3) Blue Monday > The Beach
Apparently, Blue Monday was originally called 'The Beach'. Any truth to this?
Obviously, the b-side used this title and the lyrics refer to this title, but I'd be interesting in any evidence that points to the song ever using this.

4) Sunrise > Twenty-Four Hours Part II
This seems sketchy that this was ever a working title. It seems more likely that, prior to the LP coming out, a bootlegger or fan was trying to think of a title and they felt that the song sounded a bit like the JD classic.
Anybody seen a bootleg or any official source refer to this track in this way?

5) Sooner Than You Think > Aleph > Meaning Of Life > Family Affair
Multiple names used here.

The one most referred to is 'Aleph', which was used on the 'Dreams Are Over' bootleg of the Brixton 1983 gig (where the track debuted).
But has the band ever admitted to this name being used?

'Meaning Of Life' has been used, according to some sources on bootleg tapes, possibly of the Vaulkhaus '84 gig, which was broadcast on Swiss radio.
I've not seen this myself though.

'Family Affair' - no idea where this has come from. I've just seen it on a list here https://www.new-order.ne...facs/workingtitles.html.

6) As It Is When It Was > Things We Do
Again, no idea where this came from. It was on the same list as above https://www.new-order.ne...facs/workingtitles.html.



That's about it for now.

PS Forgive me if I've asked these questions before. My memory is really fading as I get older.
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perspexorange  
#19 Posted : 04 November 2024 10:30:22(UTC)
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Well, managed to get some official evidence that the band did use the name 'Aleph' for 'Sooner Than You Think'.

I went back to the 'Tim's Listening Party' stream for Low-Life.
One of the tweets that Steve put out said the following:

"It had its slightly shambolic debut at Brixton December 1983 where for reasons beyond recall I decided to call it 'Aleph'."



Incidentally, I remember when I first heard the Zurich Volkhaus gig of 02/04/84, which was broadcast on a Swiss radio station and I had a tape of in the late 80s.
For STYT, it sounded like Bernard was making lyrics up on the spot, which we know he did, but I wasn't very familiar with this 'technique' at the time.

The lyrics talked about how Switzerland was beautiful compared to England etc. etc., which is very reminiscent of the final lyrics that appeared on the LP.
It also mentions a party/fight in their hotel which, again, made it to the final song.
Steve's follow-on tweet to the one above:

"Bernard’s eventual lyrics for Sooner Than You Think always remind me of an actual pissed up after gig party in a Zurich hotel room in April 84."

So, it does sound like the finished lyrics for STYT are basically a 'diary entry' for that night or two in Switzerland.

What is curious is that, by the time that the band played the song again (Saga Cinema, Copenhagen, 10/04/84), the lyrics were completely different. Again, it sounded like Bernard was making them up on the spot.

So, why was the finished LP version so similar to the Volkhaus version, rather than a later performance? I doubt the lyrics from that gig stuck in Bernard's head, as he didn't bother repeating these in Copenhagen.
If I had to guess, I reckon he must've been listening to a tape of that Zurich gig around the time of recording Low-Life and I bet it was a copy of the radio broadcast.
So, I reckon that broadcast is responsible for Bernard sticking with his 'stream of conciousness' lyrics on this occasion.

Interesting.

I'm gonna have a listen to all the various live versions of STYT and see if I can pinpoint when he must've been listening back to the tape.
Not that this is important, but just mainly 'cos I'm bored.

Besides, these boards need some discussion, eh?


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perspexorange  
#20 Posted : 04 November 2024 12:39:06(UTC)
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WARNING: TRAINSPOTTER TERRITORY!

OK, here we go, the timeline of 'Sooner Than You Think' lyrics:

01/12/83 The Academy, Brixton, UK
The debut of the song, which was called 'Aleph' on the setlist (as per Steve Morris on Twitter 30/04/20).
This is mainly an instrumental, but does contain made-up 'on the spot' lyrics to approximately 1.5 verses.
Some of these scant lyrics repeat the lines 'Meaning Of Life' (presumably why some bootleg copies of this tape label it with this name).

02/04/84 Volkshaus, Zurich, Switzerland
The first proper vocal version, although this is definitely Bernard (again) making up lyrics on the spot.
It contains various lyrics about Switzerland being beautiful, comparing it to England and about a party/fight in a hotel. It also starts with the ‘Hello everyone, it’s nice to be here…’ line.
There’s also a line about being a ‘thousand miles from here” that sticks around for some months.

02/04/84 DR3-FM
Radio broadcast of above gig. Apparently, this was broadcast 'live' on the day.

10/04/84 Saga Cinema, Copenhaga, Denmark
Again, made-up lyrics, but completely different to above Zurich lyrics.
The lyrics appear to be mainly in a 'love song' style including a repeated line of “oh, I know I love you".

15/08/84 Mayfair Suite, Sunderland, UK
Ok, so this is where it gets interesting, with common elements being used.
A lot of the lyrics revert back to the Zurich ones, starting with ‘Hello everyone… etc.’, mentioning the party and Switzerland. Some words are basically exactly the same as the Zurich version, which pretty much points to the fact that Bernard must’ve heard a tape of the gig. But it also adds a few more that would eventually make it to the LP version.
It also retains some of the lyrics (albeit in a slightly altered format) from the Copenhagen gig (“oh, you know we love you… yes we do”).

16/08/84 City Hall, Hull, UK
Basically similar to Sunderland (unsurprising, considering it was the next day)

19/08/84 Leisure Centre, Gloucester, UK
Basically the same lyrics and format.

22/08/24 Golddiggers, Cheltenham, UK
Some slight variation here, with certain choruses changing ("yes you do” rather than “yes we do”), foreshadowing the LP version.
This is the first mention of cheaper drinks in England.
Also, Bernard seems to have dropped naming “Switzerland” and now lists it as “your country”, again mirroring the final version.

23/08/84 Cornwall Colosseum, St Austell, UK
Pretty much the same basic lyrics as Cheltenham for the first two verses, but the third verse is very different with a load of lyrics about the ‘difference in countries’ which are difficult to make out. There’s a tonne of other of lyrics in this bit, which sounds like Bernard is making shit up again and over-running on what should be considered the proper length for the verse.
Also, this is the version that introduces the “you know what we do is so unkind” bit and this is pretty much identical to the final version.

25/08/84 ‘Rock Around The Clock, BBC Studios, London
REALLY interesting here.
The lyrics, only two days on from Cornwall, are basically exactly the same as the released LP version. Very, very little difference. It doesn’t sound like Bernard is ‘making it up’ as he goes along, so I presume he ‘nailed down’ the lyrics over the last day or two. Maybe he did it in that 'nightmare' car journey from Cornwall to London.

27/08/84 Heaven Ultradisco, London, UK
Basically the same as the BBC one above.
Presumably, all other versions after this point follow the same lyrics (give or take a few Sumner flourishes).
Lyrics are fully formed, ready for the LP to be recorded in October-December 1984.


So, to summarise:

a) Song is debuted as ‘Aleph’ at Brixton on 01/12/83. This is basically an instrumental with a handful of ‘scratch’ lyrics.

b) Song’s second outing at Zurich on 02/04/84 has full lyrics, but these are made-up on the spot and detail Bernard’s experiences of Switzerland.

c) Song’s third outing at Copenhagen has completely different made-up lyrics.

d) Song’s fourth outing at Sunderland on 15/08/84 reverts back to the lyrics about the Switzerland experiences.

e) Song continues to evolve throughout August with it reaching it’s final form, lyrically, at the BBC performance on 25/08/84.



What conclusions can we draw from all this?:

1) Some time between Copenhagen on 10/04/84 and Sunderland on 15/08/84, Bernard must’ve heard the Zurich tape; possibly someone supplied him with a copy of the radio broadcast or he heard the soundboard tape. He then decided to run with those ’Switzerland’ lyrics.

2) Lyrics evolved rapidly during August and especially between 23-25/08/84. Presumably over these two days, Bernard finalised the lyrics.

3) I have WAYYYYYY too much time on my hands.



Incidentally, I guess this exercise has helped me to determine where the ‘working title’ of ‘Meaning of Life’ for STYT came from. It probably isn’t a ‘working title’; it’s probably just what some fan called it on a bootleg based on the sparse lyrics in the Brixton ‘Aleph’ version.

Also, if you made it this far without nodding off, well done!
thanks 8 users thanked perspexorange for this useful post.
Mr Discography on 04/11/2024(UTC), daftpunk on 04/11/2024(UTC), EmileStrunz on 04/11/2024(UTC), Andy on 05/11/2024(UTC), Jul on 05/11/2024(UTC), In A Noisy Place on 06/11/2024(UTC), Rorschach on 07/11/2024(UTC), ROCKET MICK on 17/11/2024(UTC)
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